thisintegrated

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Posted (edited)

4 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

@thisintegrated This is basically the most archetypal example I could find. what is rationality

Rationality = Te

Logic = Ti

 

Preety hears guru say x.  It becomes rational for Preety to believe x.  But this is naiive, therefore it's child Te.

Edited by thisintegrated

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1 minute ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

@thisintegrated Rationality = Logic.

You just got Ti-ed.

 

😂😛


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Just now, AtheisticNonduality said:

@thisintegrated Rationality = Logic.

Not really, but I guess you could stretch the definition to include it.  CS Joseph covers this in depth if you wanna research it.

Rationality is acting in accordance to the arbitrary rules of some system.  It's not rational stay up late at night, as it goes against societal norms.  But it may still be logical to stay up late if that's when you work best.  


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@thisintegrated Logic is order, sense, intelligibility. Rationality is logic according to a specific purpose. That purpose can be internal (Ti) or external (Te). It could be socially irrational to stay up late, but it could could be personally rational.

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43 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

@thisintegrated Logic is order, sense, intelligibility. Rationality is logic according to a specific purpose. That purpose can be internal (Ti) or external (Te). It could be socially irrational to stay up late, but it could could be personally rational.

 


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1 hour ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

@thisintegrated The newest video disproves the Leo INTJ hypothesis, which seemed pretty discredited from the beginning anyway.

It's almost like he is both at the same time 🤔🤔🤔


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2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's almost like he is both at the same time 🤔🤔🤔

No, you're not going to disprove all of MBTI. thisintegrated is just good at mistyping people.

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10 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

No, you're not going to disprove all of MBTI. thisintegrated is just good at mistyping people.

🙂🙃🙂🙃


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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On 10/07/2022 at 7:52 PM, AtheisticNonduality said:

@thisintegrated The newest video disproves the Leo INTJ hypothesis, which seemed pretty discredited from the beginning anyway.

Someone is upset🤭🤭

 

On 10/07/2022 at 7:52 PM, AtheisticNonduality said:

@thisintegrated The newest video disproves the Leo INTJ hypothesis, which seemed pretty discredited from the beginning anyway.

Nope.  Have you considered why he's only waking up to Ne/Ti now, in his 30s/40s?

Ne/Ti is brand new territory for him.  That's why Ne/Ti is relevant for him to be interested in now.  Look back at his earlier videos.  100% stereotypical Orange INTJ.

MBTI states that the shadow functions only start getting serious attention at around late 20s.  What you're seeing in Leo is textbook INTJ growth/progress.  He's a slightly-above-average, healthy INTJ.  The fact you haven't addressed a single one of my points for why he's an INTJ just shows you haven't put much thought into this, and can't refute my points.


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@thisintegrated His Ti > his Te. He's a bad Te user (relatively). You believe his reading of many books and high intake of information in general over the past decades is a sign of strong Te, when actually he does not care much about external information and truths (the highest Truth is solipsism), using all of the external information at a moderately superficial level ("superficial" isn't quite the right word since it's still very competent, but it is not "thinking" over intuition), and he views all of this project as documentation of his awakening and growth (Ti) and not an effect upon society (Te). His whole goal at the beginning was very internally thinking-based (how do I do this? what is my path? and not an intuitive THIS PATH), revolving around gravitating to random sources of "knowledge" to learn (Ne) rather than shaping the outside world (Te).

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26 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

@thisintegrated His Ti > his Te. He's a bad Te user (relatively). You believe his reading of many books and high intake of information in general over the past decades is a sign of strong Te, when actually he does not care much about external information and truths (the highest Truth is solipsism), using all of the external information at a moderately superficial level ("superficial" isn't quite the right word since it's still very competent, but it is not "thinking" over intuition), and he views all of this project as documentation of his awakening and growth (Ti) and not an effect upon society (Te). His whole goal at the beginning was very internally thinking-based (how do I do this? what is my path? and not an intuitive THIS PATH), revolving around gravitating to random sources of "knowledge" to learn (Ne) rather than shaping the outside world (Te).

I will let Carl take this one for me.


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9 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

I will let Carl take this one for me.

The-Shining-008.jpg


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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Posted (edited)

 

20 hours ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

His whole goal at the beginning was very internally thinking-based (how do I do this? what is my path?)

His whole goal at the beginning was to educate Orange men and help them achieve success.  How is his "get your ass to the gym, fuck bitches" attitude in any way INTP?

 

20 hours ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

(how do I do this? what is my path?)

lol, that's actually TeSe.  TeSe is the practical knowhow/skillset of how to do get something done in the real world.  Even in Leo's newer videos, he's all about practical advice (e.g. how to awaken as god right now, today).  He only cares about the results.  He cares about waking up as deeply as possible, as fast a possible, himself, and tells people to stop wasting time playing video games and to start applying the teachings and taking it all seriously, etc.

As you seemingly confuse TiSi with TeSe, perhaps you really could be an INTP😳

 

20 hours ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

he views all of this project as documentation of his awakening and growth (Ti) and not an effect upon society (Te). His whole goal at the beginning was very internally thinking-based

Ti doesn't really care about documentation, it's not structured or reliant on historical data like that.  What you're thinking of is, again, Te.

 

 

20 hours ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

His whole goal at the beginning was very internally thinking-based, revolving around gravitating to random sources of "knowledge" to learn (Ne) rather than shaping the outside world (Te).

INTJs literally do this.  In fact, INTJs are more likely to be enneagram 5s than ENTPs, so they "gravitate" to "random sources of "knowledge"" more often than ENTPs despite not having Ti or Ne.  So neither Ti nor Ne are responsible for the kind of behavior you're imagining them to be responsible for.  INTPs have Si child, that's why they value anime, video games, and entertainment in general.  INTJs, on the other hand, often hate the very idea of fun, as it represents hedonism and time ""wasted"" being unproductive.

Leo felt like video games were a waste of time, yet he did like the idea of being a well-paid game developer, as that's actually productive, and let him feel like God (also an INTJ thing).  When he eventually realized the lifestyle of a dev was unhealthy, he left left the industry.  This is textbook NiFi.  He knew exactly how he felt, what he wanted, and was decisive in leaving and telling everyone who said it's a bad idea to fuk off (NiFi, with blindspot Fe).  And then he literally started a business (TeSe) about sharing (Se) practical advice (TeSe) on how to (Te) make it in this world (TeFiSe), and how to live a good life (Fi).

He doesn't talk about how to achieve your own personal goals, but how to get laid, how to attract women, how to awaken as god, how to achieve the things Leo values.  That's 100% Fi.

Edited by thisintegrated

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It's one thing to be able to make a coherent logical argument. It's another thing to be able to wisely choose your starting assumptions for your arguments, as there is no logic without starting assumptions. If one of your starting assumptions is wrong, your entire argument collapses. The MBTI typing business, which is the type of argumentation you two are engaging in right now, relies more or less solely on pure intuition for gathering the starting assumptions for your arguments, and herein lies the problem: pure intuition is often reliable, but not very detailed.

For instance, when you throw out an argument like "how is his "get your ass to the gym, fuck bitches" attitude in any way INTP?"", you haven't provided much of any specifics about that (e.g. how many times he has said it, what context he said it in etc.), and because it occurred to you as an intuition, for all you know, it's probably because you heard him mention it in a video once or twice. Was the intuition reliable? Sure — he said it at least one time in a video. Is it detailed? Doubt it.

So, at what point is it prudent to appeal to a highly detailed source for one's starting assumptions? How many mutual accusations of mistyping is enough before your endless source of intuitively-derived examples is seen to be futile for establishing anything resembling objectivity on this particular issue?


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's one thing to be able to make a coherent logical argument. It's another thing to be able to wisely choose your starting assumptions for your arguments, as there is no logic without starting assumptions. If one of your starting assumptions is wrong, your entire argument collapses. The MBTI typing business, which is the type of argumentation you two are engaging in right now, relies more or less solely on pure intuition for gathering the starting assumptions for your arguments, and herein lies the problem: pure intuition is often reliable, but not very detailed.

For instance, when you throw out an argument like "how is his "get your ass to the gym, fuck bitches" attitude in any way INTP?"", you haven't provided much of any specifics about that (e.g. how many times he has said it, what context he said it in etc.), and because it occurred to you as an intuition, for all you know, it's probably because you heard him mention it in a video once or twice. Was the intuition reliable? Sure — he said it at least one time in a video. Is it detailed? Doubt it.

So, at what point is it prudent to appeal to a highly detailed source for one's starting assumptions? How many mutual accusations of mistyping is enough before your endless source of intuitively-derived examples is seen to be futile for establishing anything resembling objectivity on this particular issue?

You have to draw the line somewhere if you wanna make any progress at all.  If you're a programmer, you don't question the validity of your programming language, you just assume that it works and you learn to use it.  If every programmer questioned everything, no one would ever actually program anything.  That's how civilization works.  You build on top of the stuff handed to you.  You don't redo all the work that's been done to get us to where we are now.  You assume it works, and see what you can do with it.  If you encounter problems, only then do you consider reworking the foundations.

 

And no, it's not my intuition that described Leo's attitude the way I did.  It's common in his older videos, and the fact that Leo spends 90% of his time here giving advice on how to get laid should be enough for a preliminary confirmation of this.  If you don't pick up on people's vibes and attitudes, that's too bad.  It's not practical to find every quote from every video of his.

Edited by thisintegrated

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5 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

You have to draw the line somewhere if you wanna make any progress at all.  If you're a programmer, you don't question the validity of your programming language, you just assume that it works and you learn to use it.  If every programmer questioned everything, no one would ever actually program anything.  That's how civilization works.  You build on top of the stuff handed to you.  You don't redo all the work that's been done to get us to where we are now.  You assume it works, and see what you can do with it.  If you encounter problems, only then do you consider reworking the foundations.

Spoken like a true normal scientist :P Progress? What progress are we making in this thread? xD If anything, the lack of progress is a sign that we chose the wrong program. We don't have to create a completely new program: just choose the right one.

 

7 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

And no, it's not my intuition that described Leo's attitude the way I did.  It's common in his older videos, and the fact that Leo spends 90% of his time here giving advice on how to get laid should be enough for a preliminary confirmation of this.  If you don't pick up on people's vibes and attitudes, that's too bad.  It's not practical to find every quote from every video of his.

That was one example. Risking to fall into the trap myself, there are clearly dozens of vaguely defined starting assumptions riddled throughout each of your few arguments.


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Spoken like a true normal scientist :P Progress? What progress are we making in this thread? xD If anything, the lack of progress is a sign that we chose the wrong program. We don't have to create a completely new program: just choose the right one.

If we make progress in this thread if irrelevant to the point being discussed.  Whether I convince Atheistic or not doesn't affect the validity of MBTI.

Atheistic is simply inexperienced, and is reaching for the low hanging fruit of Leo being an INTP.  It's always easier and safer to go with the crowd.  Except in this case the only reason the crowd assumes he's INTP is because Leo believes it himself.  And the only reason for this is because he read the 16personalities description of "the thinker" and he thought it fits🤦🏻

 

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

We don't have to create a completely new program: just choose the right one.

I hope you're not talking about the Big 5🙄🙄

Absolutely useless.

 

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

That was one example. Risking to fall into the trap myself, there are clearly dozens of vaguely defined starting assumptions riddled throughout each of your few arguments.

Name one.


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