Ajay0

Noam Chomsky on NATO...

42 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, hello1234 said:

That is russian propaganda, Ukraine always had its own separate identity and with that logic all the Slavic languages are just a dialect of russian…. Man russians are doomed thinking the world revolves around them…

Ukraine and russia are not the same, never were and never will be. I suggest you study some Ukrainian history because you have a huge gap there, like many russians. History is taught in a completely deluded way in russia.

Nah, that’s mostly bullshit and I have studied it. They have their own separate identity in a similar way Texas has a separate identity from New York but they have an overarching identity of being American. Ukraine and Russia are perhaps even more similar, they just pronounce words slightly differently and have their own linguistic jargon. Russian and Ukrainian are basically the same language. I’m against the war and ofc am fine with modern day Ukraine forging their own identity but historically they were one land along with Belarus. The modern identity of being Ukrainian is largely a modern creation that mostly took a back seat to being part of the larger Russian nation and began to become more prominent when geopolitically the people there found it more advantageous to be aligned with the West. They are Slavs just like Russians and Belorussians. One large diaspora with slight differences throughout it. People from all over that region have traveled through and resided all throughout it. Almost everyone in Russia has a relative in Ukraine. 

Edited by Lyubov

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Posted (edited)

51 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Nah, that’s mostly bullshit and I have studied it. They have their own separate identity in a similar way Texas has a separate identity from New York but they have an overarching identity of being American. Ukraine and Russia are perhaps even more similar, they just pronounce words slightly differently and have their own linguistic jargon. Russian and Ukrainian are basically the same language. I’m against the war and ofc am fine with modern day Ukraine forging their own identity but historically they were one land along with Belarus. The modern identity of being Ukrainian is largely a modern creation. They are Slavs just like Russians and Belorussians. One large diaspora with slight differences throughout it. People from all over that region have traveled through and resided all throughout it. Almost everyone in Russia has a relative in Ukraine. 

What you are saying is total bullshit. Ukrainian is more similar to Polish than it is to russian. Russians don’t even understand Ukrainian lmao. Again, you are completely deleded and brainwashed on this matter, like all russians are.

I am Ukrainian, I think I know better.

The reason why russians have relatives in Ukraine is because the soviets used to “move people around” and “re-shuffle” cities so that people don’t start forming groups and protesting. There were also massive genocides of Ukrainians, those killed populations were then replaced by Russians. You sure you learned history? 

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Edited by hello1234

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1 minute ago, hello1234 said:

I am Ukrainian, I think I know better 

I’m sure you have selectively chosen what to believe to support this new creation, I’m fine with Ukrainians separating and forging a new identity for themselves separate from the precedence of history, but you are just wrong thinking Ukraine as an identity was distinctively looked at as substantially different from Russian up until 30 years ago. 

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Posted (edited)

15 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

I’m sure you have selectively chosen what to believe to support this new creation, I’m fine with Ukrainians separating and forging a new identity for themselves separate from the precedence of history, but you are just wrong thinking Ukraine as an identity was distinctively looked at as substantially different from Russian up until 30 years ago. 

You are right, russia never saw Ukraine as a separate culture and with its own identity, that is the mentality your president has as well, and that is why the tragedy is happening in Ukraine right now. 
 

And of course a russian like you couldn’t give a shit of what a Ukrainian person is saying, you know better, right? Who are Ukrainians to think that they have their own culture? What do they even know? You don’t even see how abusive, ignorant, and discriminating what you’re saying is..
 

The funny part is that Ukrainian culture is older than russian culture..

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Edited by hello1234

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5 minutes ago, hello1234 said:

What you are saying is total bullshit. Ukrainian is more similar to Polish than it is to russian. Russians don’t even understand Ukrainian lmao. Again, you are completely deleded and brainwashed on this matter, like all russians are.

I am Ukrainian, I think I know better.

I’ve asked every Russian I’ve ever met if they understand Ukrainian and they all said yes. I’m barely pre intermediate in Russian and understand almost every vocabulary equivalent in Ukrainian if pronounced slowly. You sure you Ukrainian? Selective memory and total fabrication to forge a new identity. I don’t mind it but I’m going to stick to a holistic historical interpretation and yes they are 95% the same 

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What has just occurred above in the exchange is 1 factor of why the war is happening. 

The others are the fear I described and finally China and Russia's desire to dominate Eurasia, and thus to replace the US as the world's superpower.

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Posted (edited)

12 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

I’ve asked every Russian I’ve ever met if they understand Ukrainian and they all said yes. I’m barely pre intermediate in Russian and understand almost every vocabulary equivalent in Ukrainian if pronounced slowly. You sure you Ukrainian? Selective memory and total fabrication to forge a new identity. I don’t mind it but I’m going to stick to a holistic historical interpretation and yes they are 95% the same 

I can somewhat understand any Slavic language too if they speak slowly… do you understand all Slavic languages have similarities? 

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Edited by hello1234

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5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Actually the moral high ground is important in this case because now most of the civilized world and history itself will be against Russia for its barbarism.

Even if Putin wins Ukraine he will lose the long-term game of raising Russia's prestige and influence in the world -- which a great nation must have to be great. You cannot bully your way into greatness and love.

Putin's turning his back on the West is going to hold Russia back.

It's looking like he may not even be able to take all of Ukraine because most experts are saying that they are about to reach a stalemate and that neither side is able to dominate over the other. Putin is also getting much more frustrated. I really hope that he doesn't resort to using nukes. 

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9 hours ago, Lyubov said:

Dude, if anything he’s brought the west closer together than it has been in years.

 We are about to see if this is true. 

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23 hours ago, BlueOak said:


I also understand and to be frank really appreciated until very recently how direct Russians were. To me they were strength, they were honest, blunt. I value those things. To see the complete opposite a denial of reality in things like losses, like armies fighting each other being a war to achieve a dream. It reminds me of the things I hate most about western society and in myself. The creation of a reality people want to see rather than what is there. We want it to be this way so we'll say it is. I hate that so much to my core.
 


 

Anytime you engage in conflict with another, especially on the level of violence, self-delusion is needed to execute it. You cannot verbally or physically attack another unless you first delude yourself. So I hear where you are coming from, but surely someone as spiritually wise as you knows this based on previous forum posts I have read from you.

I feel you expect too much, as long as we operate in this life delusion is inevitable. I guess you mean...not the blatantly obvious delusion where the lies aren't even that creative as the evidence to the contrary is so rampantly apparent?


"Physical Reality is the Manifestation of your Will. If you're not conscious of that then you're not truly awake." -Leo Gura- The Super Conductor

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13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Actually the moral high ground is important in this case because now most of the civilized world and history itself will be against Russia for its barbarism.

Even if Putin wins Ukraine he will lose the long-term game of raising Russia's prestige and influence in the world -- which a great nation must have to be great. You cannot bully your way into greatness and love.

Putin's turning his back on the West is going to hold Russia back.

I hear what you are saying...but I will counter with the only people who look at the West with prestige, greatness, and love are those ignorant of history. I have met many foreigners who understand U.S. history better than some College Professors and they certainly do not look at the West in that regard. Every foreigner I have met who loves the West....never lived there or only visited and have a fairy tale vision of what it is like to live there.

Once talked to a man who lived in Dubai....he thought the streets of America were paved with gold....I fell out of my chair.


"Physical Reality is the Manifestation of your Will. If you're not conscious of that then you're not truly awake." -Leo Gura- The Super Conductor

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18 hours ago, Lyubov said:

Russian and Ukrainian are basically the same language. 

Sorry boss, but this sentence is the biggest load of horseshite I have read In a while. No offence to you, criticizing the idea, and the Idea only.  I am proficient in Russian (been speaking it for 19 years) and Ukrainian  gives me real headaches. Most of the times I can understand some words individually but I do not understand the meaning of the entire sentence.  

I am not Russian. I am not Ukrainian. Neutral. 

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I’ll do more research on Ukrainian culture. Perhaps there are gaps in it and I’ve done an insufficient job understanding history. 

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22 hours ago, Lyubov said:

I’ve asked every Russian I’ve ever met if they understand Ukrainian and they all said yes

This is not true, Russians do not understand Ukrainian language, please stop....

Because of this thinking that you do promote here, my people are killed. You are saying a fucking non-sense and I see that you do not study our history in Russia. 

- YouTube

Fast forward where he says how putin declared himself that he could only understand 30% of our language.


"All that we know is limited, something we don't - is infinite"

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Galyna said:

This is not true, Russians do not understand Ukrainian language, please stop....

Because of this thinking that you do promote here, my people are killed. You are saying a fucking non-sense and I see that you do not study our history in Russia. 

- YouTube

Fast forward where he says how putin declared himself that he could only understand 30% of our language.

To me what’s especially shocking is that this person thinks that Ukrainian culture is 30 years old…..

Edited by hello1234

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On 22/03/2022 at 3:12 PM, Blackhawk said:

If Russia isn't a thug, then it has no reason to fear Nato.

Anyone who has more than two working brain cells understands this.

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@hello1234 yes, you know  what is shocking to me? that my sister, real sister who lives in Moscow is so brainwashed with putinism I could not persuade her to think that we have a war, she truly believes that putin saves our people. My dad who is from Moscow thinks the same. 
my uncle right now is in Mariupol, I haven’t heard from my grandparents, not sure if they are alive…and the most shocking thing that my immediate family doesn’t give a damn. What do we even expect from people on this forum we have never seen…


"All that we know is limited, something we don't - is infinite"

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@Galyna I am really sorry to hear that :( I can’t imagine how hard it is when your closest people are like this. I hope your grandparents are well and you will hear from them soon, they have been evacuating people slowly. 

I have heard many stories like yours :(, it’s really crazy. Our distant family in Russia stopped taking to us shortly after 2014, last thing they said is that we were all “crazy in Ukraine”.

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Posted (edited)

Invading Ukraine is not okay. However, the west provoked them as Chomsky describes.

U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Gorbachev after the fall of the Soviet Union was obviously not honored. Since then we've been using NATO as risk board pieces in western capitalist dominance not limited to securing the petro dollar and arms sales.

You also have to remember that Russia is paranoid about invasions for good reason. Their past is full of devastating intrutions from the germans that killed 25 million Russians and napoleon, mongols, and turks before that. And it's not very defensible so they've relied on control of strategic bottlenecks surrouding Russia. They controlled of all of these during the Soviet Union. Ukraine is one of them.

They're losing their military capability for expansion because of low birth rates in the 1990s. That urgency might have played into their decision to invade Ukraine too.

 

Edited by Gushu

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