Leo ,i want the ultimate understanding of all of reality

[Someone here]

@Zeroguy I understand that everything is love and goodness from the absolute perspective. It's all perfection. But I intuit that there something deeper going on here although I can't quite put my finger on it so far. 

[jimwell]

Everybody should always remember this formula:

self-deception + spiritual bypassing = zen devilry

[WelcometoReality]

13 hours ago, Someone here said:

What am I Missing ? How you define total and final awakening? How to make sure that I Understand everything correctly?

You're not missing anything but you think you do. No final awakening and nothing to understand.

Hope that helped!

?

[Nivsch]

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

@Zeroguy I understand that everything is love and goodness from the absolute perspective. It's all perfection. But I intuit that there something deeper going on here although I can't quite put my finger on it so far. 

There will always be something deeper. 

Nobody have ever got to the "final" stage because it does not exist.

There are infinite levels of consciousness.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Nivsch

[SOUL]

9 hours ago, Someone here said:

I don't agree with demonizing desire .not all desires and all goals should be avoided .if its a genuine case and curiosity then it must be followed. I don't feel fully awake or that I have complete understanding of reality even though I had massive awakenings recently. But I know that there is deeper .and I wanna go as deep as I can.

I didn't demonize desire, that's in your imagination.

The implication of desire is a want for something one doesn't have, that is an imaginary separation that the mind has created between your awareness and the 'understanding' your mind has veiled from it.

When one has something there is need to desire it, this isn't a moral judgment, this is an explanation of what desire is. Curiosity can also suggest an exploration of something one already has so isn't synonymous with desire.

You are complete, all understanding is part of your awareness if you are awakened to being 'god realized' as you have been running all around this forum claiming to be. As soon as you cease to let your mind hide it from your awareness this will be clear to you.

It becomes obvious the longer people talk when they have the jargon, rhetoric and descriptions but not the actual awakening.

[SOUL]

9 hours ago, Zeroguy said:

@Someone here

He gaved you clear explanation I did it too.

Highest and only level=Infinite Love

Is this a misquote? Who are you talking to?

[Razard86]

10 hours ago, SOUL said:

@Someone here  You said 'I want' in the title and the desire for something is the mind setting up a obstacle between what it perceives it doesn't have. Remove the desire for it and awareness will be able to observe it without being obstructed by the mind.

It's a self created veil, the mind does this to keep us seeking, to keep us on the hamster wheel chasing nothing.

You are discussing conscious creation and quantum physics here. Mind going into more detail about this process?

[cetus]

16 hours ago, Someone here said:

Leo said awakening will instantly solve every problem you have in life and heal you from every disease you have. 

If you dreamt monsters were tearing at your flesh then woke and realized it was all a dream, where did the pain go?

[SOUL]

47 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

You are discussing conscious creation and quantum physics here. Mind going into more detail about this process?

I'm not sure I know what you mean when you use those two terms, conscious creation and quantum physics, so I ask you to explain a little bit more if you would be kind enough to.

[Someone here]

4 hours ago, cetus said:

If you dreamt monsters were tearing at your flesh then woke and realized it was all a dream, where did the pain go?

It disappeared into nothingness, I guess ?

[Gesundheit2]

You are legit addicted. Please return to smoking, it's a little bit more healthier.

[Someone here]

@Gesundheit2 I'm already back to smoking. Unfortunately 

[mojsterr]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

@Gesundheit2 I'm already back to smoking. Unfortunately 

A man came to me. He had been suffering from chain-smoking for thirty years; he was ill and the doctors said, “You will never be healthy if you don’t stop smoking. ” But he was a chronic smoker; he could not help it. He had tried — not that he had not tried — he had tried hard, and he had suffered much in trying, but one day or two days, and then again the urge would come so tremendously, it would simply take him away. Again he would fall into the same pattern.

Because of this smoking he had lost self-confidence: he knows he cannot do a small thing; he cannot stop smoking…

He said, “What can I do? How can I stop smoking?” I said, “Nobody can stop smoking. You have to understand. Smoking is not only a question of your decision now. It has entered into your world of habits, it has taken roots. Thirty years is a long time. It has taken roots in your body, in your chemistry, it has spread all over. It is not just a question of your head deciding; your head cannot do anything. The head is impotent; it can start things, but it cannot stop so easily. Once you have started and once you have practiced so long, you are a great yogi — thirty years’ practicing smoking. It has become autonomous; you will have to de-automatize it. ”

He said, “What do you mean by ‘de-automatization’?” And that’s what meditation is all about: de-automatization.

I said, “You do one thing: forget about stopping. There is no need either. For thirty years you have smoked and lived; of course it was a suffering, but you have become accustomed to that too. And what does it matter if you die a few hours earlier than you would have died without smoking? What are you going to do here? What have you done? So what is the point — whether you die Monday or Tuesday or Sunday, this year, that year — what does it matter?”

He said, “Yes, that is true, it doesn’t matter.” Then I said, “Forget about it; we are not going to stop it at all. Rather, we are going to understand it. So next time, you make it a meditation. ”

He said, “Meditation out of smoking?”

I said, “Yes. If Zen people can make meditation out of drinking tea, and can make it a ceremony, why not? Smoking can be as beautiful a meditation. ”

He looked thrilled. He said, “What are you saying?” He became alive! He said, “Meditation? Just tell me — I can’t wait! ”

I gave him the meditation. I said, “Do one thing. When you take the packet out of your pocket, for a moment go slowly. When you are taking the packet of cigarettes out of your pocket move slowly. Enjoy it, there is no hurry. Be conscious, alert, aware; take it out slowly, with full awareness. Then take the cigarette out of the packet with full awareness, slowly — not in the old hurried way, unconscious way, mechanical way. Then start tapping the cigarette on your packet — but very alertly. Listen to the sound, just as Zen people do when the samovar starts singing and the tea starts boiling, and the aroma. Then smell the cigarette and the beauty of it…. ”

He said, “What are you saying? The beauty?”

“Yes, it is beautiful. Tobacco is as divine as anything. Smell it; it is God’s smell.”

He looked a little surprised. He said, “What, are you joking?”

“No, I am not joking.” Even when I joke, I don’t joke. I am very serious. “Then put it in your mouth, with full awareness, light it with full awareness. Enjoy every act, small act, and divide it into as many small acts as possible, so you can become more and more aware.

“Then have the first puff: God in the form of smoke. Hindus say, ‘annam brahm’ — ‘ Food is God.’ Why not smoke? All is God. Fill your lungs deeply — this is a pranayam. I am giving you the new yoga for the new age! Then release the smoke, relax, another puff… and go very slowly.

“If you can do it, you will be surprised, soon you will see the whole stupidity of it. Not because others have said that it is stupid, not because others have said that it is bad: you will see it. And the seeing will not be just intellectual. It will be from your total being, it will be a vision of your totality. And then, one day, if it drops, it drops; if it continues, it continues. You need not worry about it. ”

After three months he came, and he said, “But it dropped.”

“Now, ” I said, “try it on other things too. ” This is the secret, the secret: de-automatize.

Walking, walk slowly, watchfully. Looking, look watchfully, and you will see trees are greener than they have ever been and roses are rosier than they have ever been. Listen. Somebody is talking, gossiping: listen, listen attentively. When you are talking, talk attentively. Let your whole waking activity become de-automatized.

 

 

-OSHO

[Razard86]

16 hours ago, SOUL said:

I'm not sure I know what you mean when you use those two terms, conscious creation and quantum physics, so I ask you to explain a little bit more if you would be kind enough to.

https://www.discovery.com/science/Double-Slit-Experiment

This experiment says that whenever we look at something in reality on the smallest level of existence it exists as infinite possibility (What we know in this community as God) and that when you observe it it takes on ONE specific possibility.

Quote

You said 'I want' in the title and the desire for something is the mind setting up a obstacle between what it perceives it doesn't have. Remove the desire for it and awareness will be able to observe it without being obstructed by the mind.

When people in certain communities discuss conscious creation they state that you must remove your desire for something to obtain it because desire comes from a belief of lack and you do not lack anything since you are the source of everything. So for example if you want to start a successful business you just close your eyes and observe that reality and really live it in the dream and then release it and operate on a daily basis and events will happen to realize that reality. 

Proponents of this use that experiment to make that point. That the true existence of the universe is just infinite possibility and we turn it into one specific realized possibility based on our belief systems be they conscious or unconscious.

[SOUL]

2 hours ago, Razard86 said:

This experiment says that whenever we look at something in reality on the smallest level of existence it exists as infinite possibility (What we know in this community as God) and that when you observe it it takes on ONE specific possibility.

The mystical mind seems to misinterpret what this experiment shows us. The double slit experiment reveals to us that a photon behaves like a wave when unobserved and behaves like a particle when observed. These are two different finite states that the photon behaves with, an infinite state wouldn't behave in finite ways.

This has brought on many mistaken understandings about the nature of the universe that plays out in many of the 'quantum consciousness' ideas of the modern mystics. 'Observation' in the context of the environment of physics also has finite behavior. So, we cannot glean much useful infinite understanding from examining the finite.

Although, we can use awareness to transcend finite behavior, awareness is consciousness that isn't bound by the observer and observed finite behavior model so isn't bound by the wave-particle duality. Contemplate that and you may find new awakenings will blossom that aren't bound by the finite 'quantum consciousness' understanding

2 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Proponents of this use that experiment to make that point. That the true existence of the universe is just infinite possibility and we turn it into one specific realized possibility based on our belief systems be they conscious or unconscious.

Desire works in the finite world, it manifests in the urges and impulses that behaves in productive ways for the body to survive. It has has uses in the wave-particle duality for the physical manifest we live in. Although, in awareness desire's duality is a hindrance because it is finite so behaves with finite effect.

We have to do things in the physical world to 'create' the things we want for us so desire has a function. Yet, in consciousness this duality 'creates' self suffering so to not allow desire to 'create' the separation by transcending it brings us liberation. It doesn't do the work to 'create' things, we still chop wood and carry water, it ceases the self suffering in consciousness.

Seeking ultimate understanding of all is something the mind attempts to 'create' through desire. Awareness can transcend this desire to understand and then all is revealed because it was never anything we are separated from anyway. Awareness is infinite, understanding is finite so the mind would have us seek to understand because it is finite.

Edited March 21, 2022 by SOUL

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, SOUL said:

The mystical mind seems to misinterpret what this experiment shows us. The double slit experiment reveals to us that a photon behaves like a wave when unobserved and behaves like a particle when observed. These are two different finite states that the photon behaves with, an infinite state wouldn't behave in finite ways.

 

You are misunderstanding the results of the experiment. You are constructing a duality between the wave and the particle. That wave when analyzed in how it responded represented the merging of past present and future. They ran various tests throughout the decades and its basic function was essentially undefined. Through an observer it gained a definition. This test literally proves the existence of God because the basic building block of everything we see is infinite which cannot be defined. 

Your interpretation is like creating a duality of infinite and finite which doesn't exist. In this experiment they are NEVER able to observe the infinite. That was the point. The experiment just revealed that an undefined, infinite possibility of past, present, and future existed. 

The past is the story we construct in our imagination, the present is our being, and the future is prediction we construct in our imagination. The finite beliefs we construct in our imaginary self create and influence the reality we experience. What I am pointing you to is the manipulation that can be at play with Lucid Dreaming. The same way you can impact your waking dream, you can also impact this reality dream. 

[Razard86]

Just now, Razard86 said:

You are misunderstanding the results of the experiment. You are constructing a duality between the wave and the particle. That wave when analyzed in how it responded represented the merging of past present and future. They ran various tests throughout the decades and its basic function was essentially undefined. Through an observer it gained a definition. This test literally proves the existence of God because the basic building block of everything we see is infinite which cannot be defined. 

Your interpretation is like creating a duality of infinite and finite which doesn't exist. In this experiment they are NEVER able to observe the infinite. That was the point. The experiment just revealed that an undefined, infinite possibility of past, present, and future existed. 

The past is the story we construct in our imagination, the present is our being, and the future is prediction we construct in our imagination. The finite beliefs we construct in our imaginary self create and influence the reality we experience. What I am pointing you to is the manipulation that can be at play with Lucid Dreaming. The same way you can impact your waking dream, you can also impact this reality dream. 

Also I notice that a trap in spirituality is always claiming something as ego, or that ego is some how bad.

Ego is not bad, it is a tool that allows God to enjoy the dream that God created. If you dissolve the ego you dissolve the dream and can thus not experience the dream. Seeing the ego as bad ironically is just another projection of the ego itself. To see God one must embrace the ego as well, it may be the last barrier for most to exit this dream.

 

[SOUL]

@Razard86  I didn't create a duality between wave and function, physics did, I was merely pointing to the difference that physics creates and that's the label in scientific understanding it was given. Of course it's not a duality in reality because there is also the observer, which is another element of the process and the environment which is another element as well. So that makes four elements required for the nature of 'wave-particle' physics.

Yes, the wave is an unbroken aspect that is undefined and the particle is defined, it has a beginning and an end. This is a description of how the universe manifests itself into actually being a physical existence. Of course, this doesn't account for the observer, which is a finite example of awareness and the environment which is a finite example of the void.  Those four elements are finite, they are not infinite in that they aren't unlimited.

Finite is limited, infinite in unlimited, this is a description of quantity, there is no line between them but they can be described as what they are. Actually we can observe the infinite with a variation of that experiment. In a delayed observer variation the recording is delayed and it appeared as if the particle was retroactively created to account for the delayed observer. So they were able to show how quantum doesn't respect time in physics.

They showed how time is merely a construct of physics and that what we would call 'now' transcends the 'time' of physics. They also can demonstrate how the 'space' of physics can also be transcended with the entanglement experiments. Showing how what we call 'now' and 'void' are outside of physics, they are even outside of what we would call 'infinite' in the physics sense because they are timeless and spaceless.

'Awareness' and 'being' we say are infinite in physics since they are unlimited but in reality they are like 'now' and 'void' as they are outside of what we would call infinite because they transcend infinite even if we call them that. These are elements that are the basis of the quantum which produces classical physics and exist as the root of what we understand as wave. In a physics sense they existed 'before' the big bang and are what could be called absolute elements.

I'm not drawing lines between these things as if they separate, this is a description of them and I can continue to describe it all the way until it's unified as one that some would call 'god'. The more manifest in the physical it is the more appearance of separation exists the closer to unity it is the less the appearance of separation exists. Though, yes, this is only an appearance of separation because, yes, it's all one.

Language isn't effective in describing the abstract and formless but I'm glad we can try to clarify even if it's not always adequate.

Edited March 22, 2022 by SOUL

[Razard86]

31 minutes ago, SOUL said:

@Razard86  I didn't create a duality between wave and function, physics did, I was merely pointing to the difference that physics creates and that's the label in scientific understanding it was given. Of course it's not a duality in reality because there is also the observer, which is another element of the process and the environment which is another element as well. So that makes four elements required for the nature of 'wave-particle' physics.

Yes, the wave is an unbroken aspect that is undefined and the particle is defined, it has a beginning and an end. This is a description of how the universe manifests itself into actually being a physical existence. Of course, this doesn't account for the observer, which is a finite example of awareness and the environment which is a finite example of the void.  Those four elements are finite, they are not infinite in that they aren't unlimited.

Finite is limited, infinite in unlimited, this is a description of quantity, there is no line between them but they can be described as what they are. Actually we can observe the infinite with a variation of that experiment. In a delayed observer variation the recording is delayed and it appeared as if the particle was retroactively created to account for the delayed observer. So they were able to show how quantum doesn't respect time in physics.

They showed how time is merely a construct of physics and that what we would call 'now' transcends the 'time' of physics. They also can demonstrate how the 'space' of physics can also be transcended with the entanglement experiments. Showing how what we call 'now' and 'void' are outside of physics, they are even outside of what we would call 'infinite' in the physics sense because they are timeless and spaceless.

'Awareness' and 'being' we say are infinite in physics since they are unlimited but in reality they are like 'now' and 'void' as they are outside of what we would call infinite because they transcend infinite even if we call them that. These are elements that are the basis of the quantum which produces classical physics and exist as the root of what we understand as wave. In a physics sense they existed 'before' the big bang and are what could be called absolute elements.

I'm not drawing lines between these things as if they separate, this is a description of them and I can continue to describe it all the way until it's unified as one that some would call 'god'. The more manifest in the physical it is the more appearance of separation exists the closer to unity it is the less the appearance of separation exists. Though, yes, this is only an appearance of separation because, yes, it's all one.

Language isn't effective in describing the abstract and formless but I'm glad we can try to clarify even if it's not always adequate.

I cannot argue with any of this, your knowledge of this experiment is beyond mines clearly. Thank you for your input and thanks for the lesson. Now I ask a question in regards to all of this. Would the teachings of Neville Goddard have any relevance to what we discussed? 

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, A_v_E said:

@Razard86 legit especially the last part. But where does the desire for an outcome is coming from ?

Well obviously the desire for any outcome would be ego, no argument there. Nice question though. Thanks for your input.