Serotonin Depletion

[jse]

A few days ago I shared a mushroom experience with a friend who has a past history of heavy MDMA use, and is nowadays on multiple meds (some possibly SSRIs).  Unfortunately his mushroom trip was cut rather short (30 mins), by what appears to be a serious Serotonin deficiency/depletion.  All the usual symptoms followed:  depression, impatience, agitation, craving for carbs, fatigue, not able to sleep.

I'm now thinking of trying to help him build up his Serotonin levels with 5-HTP supplements, the direct (more so than tryptophan) precursor to Serotonin.  If so, he would have to be off his meds, which may be a bit tricky.

Does anyone here have any experience with taking 5-HTP?  Please share your thoughts on this - thanks.

 

 

 

[Safari Celeste]

Unless you are a medical professional, specifically a psychiatrist, you really have no place trying to tell someone how to alter their brain chemistry and by suggesting new substances, you could be doing more harm than good. Don't try to fix other people. Your job is to fix yourself.

It's dangerous to diagnose other people with vague symptoms of something you yourself likely don't fully understand. If this person did over do it on the MDMA, which is an amphetamine, it's likely this person's brain chemistry is permanently or semi-permanently altered--amphetamines fry the dopamine and serotonin neurotransmitters--and it can take years to regenerate healthy, balanced neurotransmitters. It could never be the same as before--I'm unsure of this. There are a lot of factors to consider in this person's medical and psychological background. I also am not a professional and not qualified to make diagnosis or suggest treatment of such a serious medical condition. 

This friend of yours needs to want to get better and is best off doing so with a healthcare professional. If not, this person should consider going off all substances and being sober for an extended period of time while living a healthy lifestyle by eating whole, clean foods and working out regularly. This person should work a low-stress job and avoid drugs and partying all together. Healing takes conviction and patience. Magic mushrooms or medications aren't going to be a quick fix. It could take years and you're not going to fully understand what is going on in this person's mind and life. Let this person deal with their own brain.

Let me emphasize: Do not suggest this person take any substances. Do not encourage this person to take 5-HTP. How do you have any possible idea that 5-HTP won't cause the opposite of the intended effect and send your buddy on a physical and psychological tailspin? Oh, yeah, you don't, because you're searching for information on a forum and aren't a psychiatrist! Do not do this! Be smarter! Transcend above your ignorance!

Edited January 23, 2017 by Safari Celeste

[Arman]

Altered brain chemistry is not going to be the root of the problem, it is yet another symptom of a root condition that will likely resolve itself given basic self care. Serotonin depletion is probably an oversimplification and there's little way of knowing if that's really the case. Those are symptoms of an endless amount of conditions and root causes. A common one can be emotional energetic upheaval that takes time to process out. 

I suggest not recommending anything that interferes with his meds.

Eating lots of unprocessed fruits and vegetables, nuts, staying hydrated and moving the body will be more effective, like Safari Celeste said. He also needs to rest. The body knows best and it will balance itself out. 

Worry less. I'm glad you're caring for your friend. These things happen,

Edited January 23, 2017 by Arman

[Safari Celeste]

3 minutes ago, Arman said:

Altered brain chemistry is not going to be the root of the problem, it is yet another symptom of a root condition that will likely resolve itself given basic self care. Serotonin depletion is probably an oversimplification and there's little way of knowing if that's really the case.

I agree with you entirely apart from this tidbit of conflicting information which is just that every and all impulse, emotion, thought, all of it comes back to brain chemistry which is maybe a dramatic way of saying to fix the root conditions of psychological and physical ailments and behaviour issues by fine-tuning the chemical composition of the brain chemistry which can be affected by diet, stress, etc.. It's a balancing act, as most of life is.

We are all existential beings or God experiencing itself walking around in water-based meatpockets with chemical impulses. Most things can be explained by scientific reasoning. The brain is the most important and complex organ in the body. Oftentimes, people over look chemical imbalances. This person probably had root psychological causes that lead to taking drugs which chemically altered the structure of his/her brain.

[Principium Nexus]

So in short, let him visit a professional medical doctor. I wish him all the best!

[jse]

@Safari Celeste you're making a lot of assumptions there.  My friend is  being "taken care of" by high-end psychiatrists and psychologists based in Monaco, and the best they've come up with so far are numerous MRI scans, as well as the usual cocktail of antidepressants which actually do serious harm over the long run.

Traditional medicine/psychiatry treat symptoms such as his under the "depression" umbrella, and provide immediate relief through drugs which *do not* address the specific root cause of the problem, a very clear  neurochemical imbalance in his case.  SSRIs and other types of antidepressants only work well for a limited time, before the brain eventually develops a tolerance to those drugs, and increasingly higher doses become necessary.  "Tolerance" is a nice way for pharmacologists to say that over time those drugs alter the brain's neural structure in a dangerously detrimental way.

SSRI-type drugs work by blocking the re-uptake of Serotonin-specific neurons in the brain - keeping excessive levels of Serotonin floating longer in the neural synapse gaps.  However, over time the brain detects too much of this neurotransmitter floating around, and so begins to shut down Serotonin receptors - hence the eventual drug "tolerance" development.  For some reason pharmacologists and neurologists generally don't see drug tolerance as a major issue.  Not only are diminishing Serotonin levels a serious health issue in itself, but it leads to complications with the usual additional need for additional drugs such as sleep medication.

@sadlabounty thanks for the vid links, but the L-tryptophan Japanese contamination that has caused Eosinophilia–myalgia syndrome is practically a thing of the past.  It, as well as 5-HTP (which is the much more effective and direct precursor to Serotonin) is nowadays tested for Peak X contamination.

In short, my friend has been taken care of by high-end professionals, and they've done nothing but worsen his condition over time.  For him, it's time to attempt and heal his serious neurochemical imbalance in a more natural way with supplements (not substances).  His psychological issues are another story.  What I'm looking for here are reviews on the effectiveness of 5-HTP based on personal experience, as opposed to the usual "see a professional" kind of useless and sometimes dangerous advice.

[Principium Nexus]

@jse Good exercise and eating healthy are profound in boosting mood and health. Supplement wise Vitamine D, Vitamine B complex, Omega 3-6-9 and L-Tryptophan are good but you have to make sure he is not taking anything that can interfer with any meds he is taking. SSRIs can be lethal in combination with 5HTP and cause bad results.

Lately I have been doing Kundalini Yoga which helps me alot with my mood. Try it out and see if it works.

[Safari Celeste]

@jse You're right about me making assumptions because your first post on this topic was very vague and insinuated your buddy wasn't receiving care, just that you took some mushrooms with him and it went poorly because of his neurochemical imbalance and that you thought to seek reaserch on 5-HTP--I understand. You're making a lot of assumptions on my sphere of knowledge.

In my experience and research, magic mushroom use can sometimes worsen psychological disturbance especially when there's an neurochemical imbalance, so that's not necessarily a situation I gave you good credit for either and it seems obvious to me as an onlooker that you shouldn't seek to self-medicate your buddy outside of his extensive psychiatric care.

STOP TRYING TO PLAY DOCTOR. Ultimately, you are not a professional and if this isn't your situation we're discussing, then you are not entitled to impose supplements on your buddy even if he was accepting of it mostly because he's already unstable and he should not be doctored by a friend. That's irrational. You may think you know everything and seek to help your friend out of compassion, but he needs to go to a different professional if his current regime isn't panning out. 

I'm not going to argue semantics with you and I'm not sure what throwing definitions at me is supposed to clarify since it doesn't address the main lifestyle change I suggested which is for him to go sober and live a calm, productive life, ride it out and let his brain heal itself. It's clear to me that you want to play, argue, and try to point fingers towards my lack of insight on your friend's specific situation and neurochemical imbalance by addressing his tolerance to SSRIs and suggesting he's been treated under an "umbrella" of basic psychiatry.

Here's the thing: What is your role in this? Why do you seek to argue? Why do you seek information on a forum about drugs for your buddy? Look at this practically: You are not a doctor. This is not your condition. Perhaps you should look inwardly and address your own neurotic web of beliefs instead of trying to play psychiatrist. 

I will offer you this: I also had a major psychological and neurochemical imbalance because of amphetamine use. I went sober, didn't do hallucinogens, and started a supplement called Citicoline which is a much safer alternative to something like 5-HTP which can have serious side effects. It's a natural hormone that makes up 90% or something of the brain's gray matter. It helps your brain's density of dopamine receptors. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citicoline

Note, this is my own research I implemented on my own body/brain. Everyone's situation is different and I don't think it's okay to unprofessionally diagnose or treat other people. There's never going to be a one-size-fits-all cocktail to treat these kind of conditions.

I had major depressive episodes and paranoia because I zapped my dopamine and serotonin receptors and the supplement along with a strict regiment of good food, working out, and patience made it so I am nearly fully recovered after four months of living this way. I take no other medications. It's a lethal idea to mix in supplements with SSRIs and/or antipsychotics.

I don't know if what worked for me would work for your friend and it's a bad idea to make suggestions to him. 

Don't point fingers at his doctors. You don't know what you're talking about. Hahaha. 

Edited January 23, 2017 by Safari Celeste