Artists aren't as impactful as engineers, People don't care about Art

[John Paul]

@MarkKol understand that values are relative, that objectively speaking with NO bias, even as a human (or less bias over time to get to the next stage) that what you define as progress, what you define as meaningful contribution, that logic itself, even thinking as valuable are all relative, and that in another life, in another version of yourself at the next stage it's possible that you value other things the exact same way it FEELS to value what you value now.

[Ulax]

@MarkKol These are core human needs. You have them too

1 hour ago, MarkKol said:

is validation important? feel seen? then it seems like people are babies and art is a pacifier they can suck on, nobody gets up in the morning saying "Ah! ready to give everybody validation and comfort, because that's Important!"

 

[Danioover9000]

@MarkKol

1 hour ago, MarkKol said:

You get me, I'm also interested in Art an I've been considering turning it into my life purpose for months now. But I always fail to see what's the point of it, and it has to be strong! how am I supposed to wake up in the morning saying my work is the most important thing there is? how can you say that when all you do is paint or make cartoons? (which is what I'm interested in) how can cartoons or music be the most important thing there is? a person who thinks that has to be seriously misguided about everything. 

I can bullshit myself into thinking that Cartoons are important, but I can never bullshit myself into feeling that cartoons are important. 

replace "Cartoons" with every artistic field, they're all the same.

   Well, sometimes when somebody is so committed to their vision and passions, and had put in the years of time and effort into training the skills needed, sometimes they seem misguided, but it's just a difference in perspective, world view, values, cognitive and moral development, personality  types, trans states and states of consciousness, and general and specific domains of life and domains of mastery.

   One good example, is in the manga industry and looking at what mangakas go through. Some say it's voluntary slavery due to the below average payments that most mangaka receive, yet somehow in a mangaka's mind, they are able to motivate themselves to do their serialized work everyday, sometimes willingly sacrificing parts of their life for their work, which if someone was an outsider looking in, looks like wage slavery, but from the inside lookjng in, depending on their psychological development and narrative, looks like it's necessary. Depending on how their mind internally represents this domain in their sense making apparatus, how much experience they have, what states they are in and manage while doing the work, how aware they are kf their personality, how they think and what they value in their worldview, The Japanese culture tends to have a bias for collectivism versus individualism, so as a result, if you ask most Japanese, and moat people who are brought up in an eastern culture, and ask how they view themselves in their mind, the average answers tends to be in 3rd point of view, rather than 1st point of view, which is almost the opposite direction of the average answers if asking people of western culture backgrounds.

[Random witch]

I also didn't get it, but then I relized why it's so important.

Are you enjoy looking at nature's beauty? Beautiful stunning views? At woman's beauty?

Do you like looking at a beautiful face?

Have you ever wondered how the world would look without beauty?

It would be a depressing place. I don't know about animals, but it would be a depressing world for humans, for sure. It explains why one of depression symptoms is the inability to see beauty in life.

Humans are creative by nature, for some people it's a real need to create, as much as for some people to have sex or eat. This is why humans love to do stuff, invent, write, program, draw and built stuff, because some of us need this.

Humans also love beauty and asthetics and are drawn to it naturally since we were born. Some people are more aware, conscious and sensitive to the beauty around them than others, so they have the need to "duplicate" it or to express their admiration to the beauty that they see. How they do that? By painting or creating any form of visual art.

So what is the value in paintings? It might have many values, but I would say that the main value of a painting is to manifest, to express, to put on the pedestal, something beautiful in our world and later to enjoy this beauty.

Many people would say "what is so fucking valuable in beauty? It's shallow"

And I would say that if you want to discover the real value of beauty then remove all the beauty that exists in the world, and you'll see how "worthless" or "shallow" it is.

 

That's right, you can't eat beauty for breakfast and you can't conquer a country, create useless wars and being the richest person in the world just because of the beauty.

 

But that also applies for truth, joy, love compassion and spirituality in general. 

Those are so important things in life, maybe are the most important ones, and still, society doesn't care about them and it finds them "useless".

 

You might like to come back to your house after a hard day at work having empty walls, but you would like it more if there will be a painting of your favourite view. When you will stare at this painting you'll forget who you are and be in the present moment with the painting's view, a state of meditation, this is what happens to your brain when you're staring at a painting you find stunning (or any beautiful thing in life): meditative state!

This meditative state is good for your mental health which affects your physical health as well. 

 

So I would say that it has value, the problem is that not everyone appreciate it. We all want beauty in our life but we also dismiss it. Which is very sad.

 

Pablo Picasso's art might seem ugly or useless for you because it's not your taste, but for someone else it might be very therapeutic and healing to stare at.

Beauty is very subjective, what you see as beautiful a different person might see as ugly and vice versa.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Random witch

[Loba]

Art is memetic, so it has a lot of value, you can exchange feelings, ideas, and time periods through artwork as well as God, awakenings, and political views.  We used art like maps in the stone age to show where animals were grazing so we could hunt them.  There are so many different forms of art, from writing, drawing, painting, music, dancing, architecture, ect - it transfers from one person to the other what it means to be alive.  God told me that in an ideal world humans would create more art because it helps to awaken the mind and allow creative thought.

A lot of scientific discoveries come from the same intuitive place that art does, which is why they complement each other and are not at odds with one another.  Art develops your soul.  It is essential and on the same level.  Just my 2c.

[Miguel1]

5 hours ago, MarkKol said:

To my stage orange mind it seems like what he's doing is inefficient because people aren't willing to care about Wisdom or Integrity or Truth.

Keep in mind that the only people who are relevant thousands of years after their death are people like Buddha, Jesus and Mohammed.

Non-Duality was first taught 10 000 years ago and it is probably more relevant now than ever.

[John Paul]

@Migue Lonas non-duality been around the whole time in purple and blue, it just hard to practice with red and disappearing with orange take-over/can't see it when immersed in orange culture 

[Leo Gura]

@MarkKol Reducing life to pure utility -- that's your mistake.

People care more about art than they do technology. The technology is there to serve the art.

People care more about their fave rapper than they care about their toaster.

[Girzo]

19 minutes ago, Medhansh said:

2. Fave rapper vs fave entrepreneur.

Nah, an entrepreneur is a celebrity like a rapper. If you want to frame it like that then compare Kanye to Large Hadron Collider, or International Space Station, they are worth even more than Kanye, but still people care about the rapper more.

[Reciprocality]

Art is abstracting out the essence of all things such to make the particular representations of those things pale in comparison to it.

This essence can either be aesthetically pleasing or existentially authentic.

 

So how can one abstract out the authentic essence of something which is not merely a reproduction of the universe which is authentic already as in thereby needing no abstraction? By paying better attention to it.

[Juan]

On 2/28/2022 at 9:57 AM, MarkKol said:

these are just my shower thoughts

It might be that I myself can't see the value of writing a novel, producing a film/cartoon & music, but I always enjoyed it. but the impact Art makes on the world seems to be masturatory, take one of the biggest Artists in human history: Picasso, What the hell are paintings supposed to do? they just sit there, people look at them, get a little inspiration or show appreciation, but that's about it. The biggest artist made no difference. but Bill Gates created Windows and allowed computers and the internet to flourish, which made a big difference! Computers made life so much easier, simper, more efficient and much much more. The impact artists make always seemed insignificant when compared to more technical math type of people.

 

Hey, I make art for a living (my profile picture as a example of my work). I don’t know if you’ve seen Leo’s video about art wich I pretty much agreed that everything is art (God’s pov), art is relative (Personal/Human pov). I think you’re speaking only from your pov and not consider the others pov, what might not seems as art or beautiful to you, it could be for another person. 

When you go outside, you’ll see art design everywhere: street signs, where to get anywhere, billboards, everything included on you’re phones design, etc. So these signs basically is saving our asses if you wanna put it that way jeje. Now to answer how impactful Art is compared to Engineers & Technology, I think you’re just expressing from your pov once again, in my experience, art and engineers/technology goes hand by hand. 

Before creating a computer, or any new technological design, what do you need first aside of the idea itself? A sketch! Or some sort of visual design. Now the impact that gallery paintings will have on a person that is gonna vary from the person’s past experiences, cultures, belief system, values, etc.  A Picasso’s painting could spark a inspiration for someone for how to perceive the world and within that spark of inspiration, you can impact to millions if not billions of people and within generations so you can seed new ideas about: fashion, music, culture, how people’s feel, politics, life in general, etc. Art it doesn’t have to be only apply to paintings, it can be also Engineers too, musicians, writers, etc. The power to create/destroy.

For me Art is the same as Consciousness, God’s creation/destruction, art is everywhere I see, no matter how crude it could be, Life itself is a piece of Art. Now how with God’s power of create, I can also help expand awareness on certain subjects, representing something beyond human, taking a Alex Grey’s work as a example, I can help humanity to grow. ???❤️

Edited March 1, 2022 by Juan

[Thought Art]

People love artists. There is room for different industries and all are important. 
 

Musicians inspired me to read, to pursue spirituality, to love myself and others. Musicians taught me about racism, wars, peace, human nature. Music stopped me from committing suicide, to become a better partner. 
 

art is powerful.

 

check out: The Mission Of Art - Alex Grey

Edited March 1, 2022 by Thought Art

[Juan]

25 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

People love artists. There is room for different industries and all are important. 
 

Musicians inspired me to read, to pursue spirituality, to love myself and others. Musicians taught me about racism, wars, peace, human nature. Music stopped me from committing suicide, to become a better partner. 
 

art is powerful.

 

check out: The Mission Of Art - Alex Grey

+1

https://www.amazon.com/Mission-Art-Alex-Grey/dp/157062545X

Edited March 1, 2022 by Juan

[Hardkill]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@MarkKol Reducing life to pure utility -- that's your mistake.

People care more about art than they do technology. The technology is there to serve the art.

People care more about their fave rapper than they care about their toaster.

Unfortunately, when it comes to works of true high intellectual creative art most people don't care about it until many years later because it's always too advanced for its time.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Hardkill

[Juan]

2 hours ago, Medhansh said:

If Kanye West dies tomorrow, nothing major will change. Yes, people will blow up social media with respects etc, and a lot of people will be sad. For one day. A few people will lose their jobs, and that's about it.

Nothing major will change for you, but for other people, it probably will. I don’t know if you ever lost a loved one but, with each action there is probably a reaction and that reaction, it can wake up something on you that is gonna impact the whole world.

This is already a subject apart from OP, but taking Michael Jackson as a example, the death of someone many loved, inspired people to take action about it, the act of the death of someone, it can change how we feel from now on how we aproach life.

2 hours ago, Medhansh said:

One-day sob stories on Instagram aren't impact.

Yes it can, you can encounter a powerful message, picture or event that it can change your life, not just even your life but for the whole society (like a manifestation about the goverment selling our beaches here on Puerto Rico), and world.

Again this is something outside OP so we can talk on another thread or message/inbox.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Juan

[Johnny Galt]

@MarkKol I encourage you to consider the question, what is art? and with this I'd look to the asiatic and european philosophical and spiritual systems. To clarify, you can look else where to find what I speak to and yet I've found we have a lot to see in looking in those two directions. 

From what I'm seeing, this word art, it speaks to much more than the art of today. I'd say we have lost knowledge coupled with that we are working from a corrupted understanding and perception of what art is, of what the ways of the artist involves. Here's a fascinating series of lecture on opera; some say art was originally a part of ones initiatory process. https://chicagognosis.org/the-secret-teachings-of-opera.html

Edited March 1, 2022 by Johnny Galt

[Johnny Galt]

to add to my above comment. On the link I shared, last time I looked they did have audio recordings of the lectures. 

[vizual]

@Leo Gura  Lol, so people care more about the new Kanye West song than running clean water, working electricity and internet connectivity? Which are all heavily reliant on engineering expertise. 

It's easy to not appreciate the things you take for granted. Without smart engineers our luxury life as we know it could not exist.

[Extreme Z7]

On 2/28/2022 at 9:57 PM, MarkKol said:

The impact artists make always seemed insignificant when compared to more technical math type of people.
 

This is ban-worthy stupidity. Creativity is everything. Even the best technological and scientific advancements involved  high amounts of creativity.

Technical types tend to be overrated virgin losers. The highly creative are the true chads of the world.

(In case you couldn't tell, I'm being hyperbolic and somewhat sarcastic. My serious response is further below)

Edited March 2, 2022 by Extreme Z7

[Mulky]

We live in a time where the philistine mindset is really prevalent.