Bentinho Massaro & His Shadows - He could be in some serious shit this time.

[Miguel1]

10 hours ago, aurum said:

Yup.

For those who think I’m bullshitting:

https://www.inc.com/magazine/201610/most-confident-man-tony-robbins.html

''That message has drawn in business titans who pay him a staggering $1 million a year for personal coaching.''

That is according to your link.

So it is for a year, not for a session. It is in a way understandable because he targets the stage orange people. Naturally, they have the most money. The rich CEOs who pay him that, are most likely so rich, it doesn't really hurt them at all.

When it comes to spirituality tho, and especially someone like Ben who teaches advanced stuff, he attracts a very different kind of audience. I would say that the majority of them are not taking the money-making scheme seriously at all, compared to Tony's audience. Also, it is easy to charge a lot, when your business model helps people make more money. It is easy to charge 100k if your business/advice/help, helps them make 1M back.

10 hours ago, aurum said:

So now here’s the relevant question to this thread: Does that mean Tony Robbins is a grifty cult leader?

I’d say it depends on how we’re going to make the distinction of what a “cult” is or isn’t.

Now, when it comes to whether Tony is running a cult or not, I won't comment because I haven't researched him thoroughly enough. But a big part if not a major part of a cult consists of two things: 1. People giving away all their money. 2. They engage in sexual activities with the leader.

Surely there are some people stupid enough to use all their savings to go into his seminar but does he encourage it?

Also, I am not aware that he is exploiting people sexually.

[vizual]

@Migue Lonas Tony Robbins also was involved in several sex scandals of possible rape/manipulation/intimidation. I'm not sure how that played out as I try to avoid celebrity gossip as much as possible, but his name is definitely not clear.

Edited March 1, 2022 by vizual

[Shrek_Of_Justice]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Sorry buddy but you're very misunderstanding what awakening is.

There is such an occurrence as awakening and you have yet to achieve it.

Awakening is very much like orgasm. You've either had one or you haven't. You are not born already orgasmed.

Hmm I see. 

Well then my description of enlightenment as being the peak human experience wasn't entirely off was it? Orgasm being the peak pleasure experience, enlightenment being peak human experience?

It is true that I have never experienced this. I came close once on a 5-MeO trip but I felt too much resistance in my body to let go into it.

That being said, I still find the attitude of looking for awakening as something to achieve to be off-putting. If we continue the analogy of it being akin an orgasm then imagine someone having sex just to have an orgasm to the extent that they disregard the value of the whole sexual experience. Then it will ruin both the sexual experience and the orgasm because the quality of the orgasm is determined by the entire sexual experience. 

This is how I view life now. Life itself is the sexual experience and enlightenment is the orgasm. However, if you are not in harmony with the basic life experience to begin with, the awakening will likely not be optimal. It may not even come. 

On the flip side, if you are aware of the awakening experience and are aiming to experience it but not out of a sense of need nor accompanied by a disregarding of your life as is, then it seems perfectly natural to me. It is just that my impression of spiritual communities attempting to experience awakenings that the seeking will negatively impact your life and thereby only be counterproductive.

Again though, this is what I did, this was my experience. I do hope to experience awakening at some point but I feel that the only way of going about that is to live authentically and presently until the time is right.

[Miguel1]

49 minutes ago, vizual said:

Tony Robbins also was involved in several sex scandals of possible rape/manipulation/intimidation. I'm not sure how that played out as I try to avoid celebrity gossip as much as possible, but his name is definitely not clear.

I see.

[Leo Gura]

Being like Tony Robbins is not a good thing. The dude is obsessively Orange. Like a carton caricature of Orange.

[Miguel1]

42 minutes ago, Shrek_Of_Justice said:

This is how I view life now. Life itself is the sexual experience and enlightenment is the orgasm. However, if you are not in harmony with the basic life experience to begin with, the awakening will likely not be optimal. It may not even come. 

44 minutes ago, Shrek_Of_Justice said:

Again though, this is what I did, this was my experience. I do hope to experience awakening at some point but I feel that the only way of going about that is to live authentically and presently until the time is right.

Obviously, no one here is encouraging to seek awakening if your basic survival is jeopardy. Likewise, if you have psychological mental issues, do not follow Leo's work. This is written everywhere.

But once you have all the basic stuff handled, it is silly to think that there is no need to seek at all. And from reading your writings, it seems like you know this yourself deep down as well, you are just not fully admitting it to yourself because you have been ''traumatized'' from seeking in the past, due to you being too immature to seek in the first place.

 

 

[SOUL]

There's so much spiritual negging that goes on...

[Shrek_Of_Justice]

4 hours ago, Migue Lonas said:

Obviously, no one here is encouraging to seek awakening if your basic survival is jeopardy. Likewise, if you have psychological mental issues, do not follow Leo's work. This is written everywhere.

But once you have all the basic stuff handled, it is silly to think that there is no need to seek at all.

I did not mean a situation as extreme as jeopardizing basic survival, I meant that it would disturb any of one's life functions, including self-esteem, relationships.

I don't think it is silly to think there is no need to seek once someone is happy with themselves. Unless, with 'basic stuff', you mean survival but not happiness. In fact, all the people that I know personally who have done any sort of seeking were not happy with themselves to begin with. I am not saying it is impossible, sure there may be some, but I have never seen them. 

4 hours ago, Migue Lonas said:

And from reading your writings, it seems like you know this yourself deep down as well, you are just not fully admitting it to yourself because you have been ''traumatized'' from seeking in the past, due to you being too immature to seek in the first place.

It is not accurate to say I was traumatized from the seeking. I was already traumatized for other reasons and sought a way out of it. I was seeking a way out of it, yes. Spirituality was what I hoped would alleviate it but that was not the case. I guess you could call that immaturity, sure.

[Shrek_Of_Justice]

21 minutes ago, SOUL said:

There's so much spiritual negging that goes on...

So much for "growth" and "enlightenment" ehh ?

[vladorion]

8 hours ago, Shrek_Of_Justice said:

Hmm I see. 

Well then my description of enlightenment as being the peak human experience wasn't entirely off was it? Orgasm being the peak pleasure experience, enlightenment being peak human experience?

It is true that I have never experienced this. I came close once on a 5-MeO trip but I felt too much resistance in my body to let go into it.

That being said, I still find the attitude of looking for awakening as something to achieve to be off-putting. If we continue the analogy of it being akin an orgasm then imagine someone having sex just to have an orgasm to the extent that they disregard the value of the whole sexual experience. Then it will ruin both the sexual experience and the orgasm because the quality of the orgasm is determined by the entire sexual experience. 

This is how I view life now. Life itself is the sexual experience and enlightenment is the orgasm. However, if you are not in harmony with the basic life experience to begin with, the awakening will likely not be optimal. It may not even come. 

On the flip side, if you are aware of the awakening experience and are aiming to experience it but not out of a sense of need nor accompanied by a disregarding of your life as is, then it seems perfectly natural to me. It is just that my impression of spiritual communities attempting to experience awakenings that the seeking will negatively impact your life and thereby only be counterproductive.

Again though, this is what I did, this was my experience. I do hope to experience awakening at some point but I feel that the only way of going about that is to live authentically and presently until the time is right.

It's not an experience. It's the essence of all experiences being revealed.

[aurum]

15 hours ago, Migue Lonas said:

'That message has drawn in business titans who pay him a staggering $1 million a year for personal coaching.''

That is according to your link.

So it is for a year, not for a session. It is in a way understandable because he targets the stage orange people. Naturally, they have the most money. The rich CEOs who pay him that, are most likely so rich, it doesn't really hurt them at all.

When it comes to spirituality tho, and especially someone like Ben who teaches advanced stuff, he attracts a very different kind of audience. I would say that the majority of them are not taking the money-making scheme seriously at all, compared to Tony's audience. Also, it is easy to charge a lot, when your business model helps people make more money. It is easy to charge 100k if your

Fair enough, it’s possible for that 1 mil you get more than one call a year. In which case the average price would be lower. I may have been too flippant in quoting that number.

My point was it’s a shit load of money. And that there are people out there who would pay it. Obviously Bentinho would have to go outside his normal audience member to achieve this.

15 hours ago, Migue Lonas said:

Now, when it comes to whether Tony is running a cult or not, I won't comment because I haven't researched him thoroughly enough. But a big part if not a major part of a cult consists of two things: 1. People giving away all their money. 2. They engage in sexual activities with the leader.

Surely there are some people stupid enough to use all their savings to go into his seminar but does he encourage it?

Also, I am not aware that he is exploiting people sexually.

Look at the larger picture.

My intention was to use Tony as an example to show how these dynamics are often far more complex than the snap judgments we make. It’s not to literally argue whether Tony is a cult leader.

[Miguel1]

8 hours ago, aurum said:

My intention was to use Tony as an example to show how these dynamics are often far more complex than the snap judgments we make.

Obviously.

Leo is also called a cult. But like I said before, it is not a binary thing. It is one thing that Leo gets called a cult leader by anonymous people on the internet, it is completely another thing that Ben has had people coming out for his entire career with their own name and face, breaking their 300k NDAs.

Do you see the discrepancy here?

It requires a shit ton of courage (lack of fear due to having nothing to lose anymore) to come out as a woman, after you have been hellishly humiliated in hell and tell the story with your own name and face. You must truly want to prevent others from falling prey to the same predator you fell into, to do this. You must truly be ready to let go of whatever image and ”ego” you had of yourself to do this.

Don’t underestimate how hard, humiliating, and exhausting it is for women to come out publicly about such matters. That’s why a lot of women don’t do it.

https://www.instagram.com/s/aGlnaGxpZ2h0OjE3OTY3OTM2OTgyNTI3MDA0?story_media_id=2784791100637743218&utm_medium=copy_link

[MarkusR]

Personally I really find a lot of value in Bentinhos teachings. A large portion of them are freely available. I wouldn't mind spending money on a luxury retreat also if I was in a position to do so. 

I think most of the people handing accusations seem to be being overly dramatic, and not stating any clear instances of what he has actually done. 

I think it's pretty clear. He is a young and dedicated spiritual teacher with somewhat "immature values" like a luxurious lifestyle and wanting to enjoy multiple relationships with beautiful women. But in the end that is natural, we all have those desires, I don't necessarily like demonising someone for having that.

[RickyFitts]

Interesting Guardian article on Bentinho here, for anyone who's interested:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/09/strange-hypnotic-world-millennial-guru-bentinho-massaro-youtube

[Dodo]

On 02/03/2022 at 1:13 PM, MarkusR said:

Personally I really find a lot of value in Bentinhos teachings. A large portion of them are freely available. I wouldn't mind spending money on a luxury retreat also if I was in a position to do so. 

I think most of the people handing accusations seem to be being overly dramatic, and not stating any clear instances of what he has actually done. 

I think it's pretty clear. He is a young and dedicated spiritual teacher with somewhat "immature values" like a luxurious lifestyle and wanting to enjoy multiple relationships with beautiful women. But in the end that is natural, we all have those desires, I don't necessarily like demonising someone for having that.

Waste of time. Spiritual teachers must be in line with love on a deep level, otherwise what they say is poisoned milk. Someone like Matt Kahn, you just know the love is beeming through him. What Bentinho is, is a very clever guy, who is able to fake it very well, being able to intellectualise things and present them simply . apparently to get laid. 

 

[Dodo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2-Ym7BdHTQ  Here is a documentary of Bentinho's type of cult