I asked Rupert Spira directly about solipsism - here is what he said

[Gili Trawangan]

Definition of solipsism:

: a theory holding that the self can know nothing but its own modifications and that the self is the only existent thing

also : extreme egocentrism

taken from Merriam-Webster dictionary (I bolded the words)

 

Infinity/Reality/God is all there is. However, this certainly isn't nor can it ever be a theory, it can never be conceptualized. And more importantly: there isn't a self, and there certainly isn't a thing anywhere. Case closed.

Enlightenment is not solipsism, it's so beyond solipsism that it's a disservice to Love to continue to use it. This concept is only being used on this forum, just notice that so many spiritual traditions have steered clear of such theories. Using this word is sloppy, incorrect, misleading and not aligned with Source, Love and all there is.

This solipsism business is a sham, and it doesn't feel good because it isn't aligned with Truth. Truth feels amazing, it feels like love, connection, bliss, wholeness, perfection, heaven.

Trust your inner guidance.

[RMQualtrough]

18 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@RMQualtrough enough with the immaturity.  If you disagree with the teachings here you know where the door is.  No one is forcing you to stay here.  It's not that you can't criticize or disagree but the childish behavior needs to stop.  Be here to learn.

Of course, please forgive me Herr Himmler.

This thread is locked for further replies.

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

Of course, please forgive me Herr Himmler.

This thread is locked for further replies.

Hey now - I'm Jewish..don't even bring up those nazi bastards

 

[RevoCulture]

4 hours ago, Lenny said:

Rupert clearly said that you (as consciousness) are experiencing Rupert's thoughts, but cannot experience the thoughts through the lens of the finite mind of Lucian. This comment could still allow for the idea that you (as consciousness) is creating the finite mind of both Rupert and Lucian, therefore resolving any disparity between the ideas from Leo and Rupert.

I believe that Rupert, not wanting to confuse Lucian, based on a quiet assessment of his spiritual level/consciousness level, wanted to approach Lucian's questions from a position that would be understood. Rupert is not speaking from the position of the Self here, he is speaking from the position of a finite person/mind. He may have noticed that Lucian's "mind" (Lucian's idea of the mind) is not the "mind of the Self". Rupert also started to use the term "finite mind" to differentiate between the one mind (consciousness/the mind of the Self) and the "mind" of "Lucian" and "Rupert". Also, Lucian could be speaking of the one mind, and there has been a miscommunication. But, I didn't hear Lucian say that he is Rupert.

Now, I might be wrong. It is easy to come up with ideas that verify statements and give justifications.

To expand; I know that I am all of existence/reality/consciousness, but the little me "Lenny" isn't. The little "Lenny" appears in me as reality. It might not help others for me to speak about myself as the fresh poop on the ground. Or that someone is imagining everything and nothing is real. From the position of the absolute, being real or not real doesn't hold any water and does not change the absolute/consciousness/reality/what is.

"Real" and "unreal" are just ideas/thoughts/finite forms in reality and only veil itself from itself. Even my saying "just ideas" is a thought/energetic form in reality that veils reality. My thought "reality" is made up of reality, and made by reality, but isn't reality in it's entirety. 

Love from Lenny  

 

 

 

 Nicely done..

[VictorB02]

19 hours ago, Nadosa said:

You should have asked him about Maharshi's quote: "there are no others"

or Nisargadatta: "First know your own mind and you will find that the question of other minds does not arise at all, for there are no other people. You are the common factor, the only link between the minds, Being is consciousness; ‘I am’ applies to all."

"This [helping people] is mere imagination. In truth you do not help others, because there are no others. (313)

In reality there are no others, and by helping yourself you help everybody else. (383)"

Rupert has said many times in his webinars that "there actually is no separate existing individuals, it is all one being"

Edited February 25, 2022 by VictorB02

[RMQualtrough]

6 hours ago, Lenny said:

Rupert clearly said that you (as consciousness) are experiencing Rupert's thoughts, but cannot experience the thoughts through the lens of the finite mind of Lucian. This comment could still allow for the idea that you (as consciousness) is creating the finite mind of both Rupert and Lucian, therefore resolving any disparity between the ideas from Leo and Rupert.

I believe that Rupert, not wanting to confuse Lucian, based on a quiet assessment of his spiritual level/consciousness level, wanted to approach Lucian's questions from a position that would be understood. Rupert is not speaking from the position of the Self here, he is speaking from the position of a finite person/mind. He may have noticed that Lucian's "mind" (Lucian's idea of the mind) is not the "mind of the Self". Rupert also started to use the term "finite mind" to differentiate between the one mind (consciousness/the mind of the Self) and the "mind" of "Lucian" and "Rupert". Also, Lucian could be speaking of the one mind, and there has been a miscommunication. But, I didn't hear Lucian say that he is Rupert.

Now, I might be wrong. It is easy to come up with ideas that verify statements and give justifications.

To expand; I know that I am all of existence/reality/consciousness, but the little me "Lenny" isn't. The little "Lenny" appears in me as reality. It might not help others for me to speak about myself as the fresh poop on the ground. Or that someone is imagining everything and nothing is real. From the position of the absolute, being real or not real doesn't hold any water and does not change the absolute/consciousness/reality/what is.

"Real" and "unreal" are just ideas/thoughts/finite forms in reality and only veil itself from itself. Even my saying "just ideas" is a thought/energetic form in reality that veils reality. My thought "reality" is made up of reality, and made by reality, but isn't reality in it's entirety. 

Love from Lenny  

Good, good, let the good posts flow through you.

(Saved, thanks).

[VictorB02]

11 hours ago, Ry4n said:

Lol Yeah that idea is pretty stupid. I hope @Leo Gura you don’t agree with this but I wouldn’t know because I can never get a clear answer. I can get an absolute answer from you, but the question being asked is actually relative. 

At least some of the questions have to be answered on a relative level, and then see how that relates to the absolute level. 
 

For instance, absolutely do I agree that there is only one infinite consciousness, with no bounds or limitations, which’s substance is nothing and can manifest into whatever it likes? Of course! 
 
On a more basic, human, relative impermanent level, do I think such a consciousness (for the purpose of creation) could split itself into dualities, which include many unique finite minds that interplay with each other because why the flying fuck not it’s infinite? YES!

Absolutely, is all those finite minds with unique experiences completely imaginary?  YES! Does it matter? FUCK NO! It’s all imagination anyway, my ego’s finite experience is just as imaginary as anything else, even my microscopic dick is imaginary, who cares? I fail to see a reason to interpret my relative experience of the world as any different than before, despite knowing the underlying unity of it. I can still appreciate the diversity of it all whilst knowing it’s all one at the same time. 

I think Rupert is simply trying to connect the relative and absolute by saying that one infinite consciousness (the absolute) can imagine many different experiences simultaneously in the relative sense. Don’t see anything wrong here. 

If one truly cared about erasing duality forever, there would be nothing. If an individual does anything at all, that proves they care about diversity and want to enjoy creation and possibly take part in it. 

Yes it’s imagination, and?

I agree with this. I think that is what Rupert was getting at.

There's no reason God couldn't experience itself from different POV's simultaneously  

[peanutspathtotruth]

8 minutes ago, VictorB02 said:

I agree with this. I think that is what Rupert was getting at.

There's no reason God couldn't experience itself from different POV's simultaneously  

Exactly "my" "thoughts" 

""

 

I have two impressions here:

a) We're doing advanced philosophy here, this is good stuff. We're penetrating the actuality of it all, always coming back to direct experience as best as we can.

b) I often have the impression we don't know what we're REALLY talking about. Are we trying to formulate the absolute highest perspective and only that? Are we counting the infinite many perspectives that are contained by the absolute? Are we relating it back to this very experience? What subtle points are we actually discussing here, and why? 

[Setzer901]

7 hours ago, GreenWoods said:

 

So by using our mind and getting into relative-perspective territory, we can say, that at some point, God will shapeshift into every possible form of Infinity. And then we can also say that time is an illusion, therefore all of Infinity, all possible bubbles, exist at once. But this is only the relative perspective, the way the human mind makes sense of it.

 

 

@GreenWoods Which is it though, all bubbles exist at once/in timelessness or God will shapeshift into every form at some point? 

The latter makes no sense – time is again being brought into the picture. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Setzer901

[Lenny]

8 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

Good, good, let the good posts flow through you.

(Saved, thanks).

Hahah classic Sith line. You know how I read this first time.

[vladorion]

8 hours ago, VictorB02 said:

I agree with this. I think that is what Rupert was getting at.

There's no reason God couldn't experience itself from different POV's simultaneously  

True. What some people here are saying is not, "all fingers are actually one hand", they're saying "there is only one finger", which makes zero sense.

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, vladorion said:

True. What some people here are saying is not, "all fingers are actually one hand", they're saying "there is only one finger", which makes zero sense.

When the finger becomes the hand all the other fingers dissolve.  There is just the hand 

 

[Inliytened1]

6 hours ago, Setzer901 said:

@GreenWoods Which is it though, all bubbles exist at once/in timelessness or God will shapeshift into every form at some point? 
 

Your correct..time is an illusion so there is no some point

  "At some point" is also imaginary.   There is only now.  The past and future are imaginary.   You are the present moment and you are eternal.  You dream because you can't capture yourself..so you dream to make up stories to explain yourself.  Enlightenment is realizing that you just are yourself.   You just are.

[vladorion]

13 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

When the finger becomes the hand all the other fingers dissolve.  There is just the hand 

 

Of course fingers don't dissolve. They're just not seen as existing independently from the hand and seen as being essentially the hand.

And definitely not, "only this finger is the hand".

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, vladorion said:

Of course fingers don't dissolve. They're just not seen as existing independently from the hand and seen as being essentially the hand.

And definitely not, "only this finger is the hand".

If you were to become the Universal Consciousness that Rupert speaks of..aka God...there would not be other minds still independent of you.  They would all collapse into you.  This is because they were never outside of you to begin with it.  Not actually.  They only appeared to be.  God is a master illusionist and you fail to appreciate that.

[Seraphim]

37 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

If you were to become the Universal Consciousness that Rupert speaks of..aka God...there would not be other minds still independent of you.  They would all collapse into you.  This is because they were never outside of you to begin with it.  Not actually.  They only appeared to be.  God is a master illusionist and you fail to appreciate that.

Ha! So you do believe there are other minds, just not independent of you? I think your beliefs are non-duality, not solipsism I don't think any of the moderators on this forum have the same beliefs as Leo, nothing wrong with that, I'm into non-duality too, but it's weird when you guys pretend to have the same beliefs.

I think when Leo saw the solipsistic perspective, what he looked at was his own mind-consciousness in its manifested and unmanifested form, and he assumed it was the only thing that exists because it seemed like it. Some yogis talk about the mind-consciousness and the nature of reality, it's probably easy to make a mistake when interpreting it, especially when tripping, because it is so profound and our minds are not used to analyzing subtle things like consciousnesses, and it is true that its unmanifested form is the absolute, but its manifested form is not everything that exists, it has many manifestations (many minds exist).

Edited February 26, 2022 by Seraphim

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

Ha! So you do believe there are other minds, just not independent of you? I think your beliefs are non-duality, not solipsism I

Your misunderstanding..you as God are imagining other minds...it is exactly like a dream.   But they are real to you until you wake up because imagination IS reality.  

[Seraphim]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

Your misunderstanding..you as God are imagining other minds...it is exactly like a dream.   But they are real to you until you wake up because imagination IS reality.  

When you "wake up" or realize the absolute, you let go of all those concepts and ideas, because you go beyond the mind, and yes there are no "others", we can see and feel that, but you won't take that truth and build a belief like solipsism with it. No others is just no others, like non-duality it only says what something isn't, because when we are in the no-mind or Buddha-mind state, we don't create more beliefs.

[Inliytened1]

23 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

When you "wake up" or realize the absolute, you let go of all those concepts and ideas, because you go beyond the mind, and yes there are no "others", we can see and feel that, but you won't take that truth and build a belief like solipsism with it. No others is just no others, like non-duality it only says what something isn't, because when we are in the no-mind or Buddha-mind state, we don't create more beliefs.

I'm not sure what you mean..but personally I don't even like using the word Solipsism..it's not necessary and then people can get caught up with the word and turn it into a belief like you said.  But  there is only God.  You are God.  And you are imagining everything.  If you want to call that Absolute Solipsism or whatever Leo called it in the video, whatever I don't really give a hoot.  The point is that there is nothing outside of you.   There are not actually other minds or God is not actually being other minds simultaneously.  All division is an illusion  created by God limiting its consciousness so that there appears to be things outside of or independent of it.    In that way God can experience limitation.

[Matthew85]

During my deepest awakenings exploring God I realized it is beyond all human concepts and all physics. It had multi dimensional and holographic qualities to it. It can create infinite unique replications of itself and every replication will contain every other replication and the entire universe within it. Exploring God you run into paradoxes like, how can something be an infinite many and one simultaneously? I think this is where some of the solipsism confusion comes in. If every one of us expands our consciousness far enough, it will feel like you are the only conscious being in existence and all other beings are within you, but this will be true for all infinite replications. I don't think our limited human minds can ever fully grasp what God is, we will only have a partial understanding while we are perceiving through our human minds. 

Edited February 26, 2022 by Matthew85