Vynce

Request to Leo, to make blog post/video about Putin behavior in Ukraine.

365 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Putin's invasion is wrong, relatively speaking.

I am not taking a neutral position. I am just trying to get you to see his perspective. Seeing his perspective does not make invading Ukraine a good move. It's probably not even a good move for Putin. I think he is overreaching on this one, and yes, Ukraine deserves assistance.

With this move Putin has made himself into the bad guy. If he hadn't made this move his position would have been much more understandable and defensible.

I did underestimate his willingness to invade. I thought he would be wiser than that. I don't think this invasion will achieve a better situation for Russia or even Putin. I just don't see how Russia can occupy Ukraine long-term. It's not going to work. So what is the point of all this? It's just going to piss the whole world off against Putin and it will cost many lives, with no real gain.

War in ukraine was going for over 8 years and from Putin's position it is just a few weeks/days to just stop a war in Ukraine instead of having a war for the next 5-10years. Zelensky literally told russians in ukraine to go back to russia when they know that russians make a huge portion of the Ukraine population. And they have made a lot of anti-russian laws over the years  which hurt a huge part of Ukraine population since the coup.

 

Ukraine and multiple other major european countries signed a deal with Russia to resolve this issue, but guess who didn't abide by the deal that would make this war impossible.

 

Ukraine is a chess piece for the west. I think this war is mostly west's fault than the russia's.

 

West sanctions is just a materialistic punishment when Russians don't care as much about materialism the way the west does.

Edited by dafels

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Welcome to the Cold War, again.


"Wanting keeps me from the awareness I already have it. I already am it.” — Byron Katie

 

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4 hours ago, Ryan_047 said:

That's a naïve position. If that was the case, why does living in Ukraine sucks? 

His purpose is not annexing Ukraine, his purpose is to permanently keep Ukraine out of integrating with the EU and NATO. If he hadn't intervened militarily now, Ukraine would have been harder and harder to conquer due to its increased military spending and would have continued the integration process with the EU. Once Ukraine would have joined EU (mind you, not necessarily NATO) it would have been over for Russia. There would have been nothing Putin could have done anymore, or at the very least, his economic blackmail would have little effect. One of his biggest fears is a democratic well functioning and prosperous Ukraine. Why? Since Russia and Ukraine are so culturally close, Russians would start questions why the fascist oligarchy that they're living in can't produce the same result that Ukraine in the EU can. That would be the beginning of the end not only for Putin, but for his entire club of fascist friends.

But I think this move will get Ukraine to join NATO faster and gain more Western alignment.

3 hours ago, Porphyry Fedotov said:

He isn't going to occupy Ukraine. I think he will dismantle Ukrainian democracy and get rid of its political elites. Ukraine is going to be another Russian client state just like Belarus or Kazakhstan. I feel sad and sorry for them, since Ukraine was a real democracy, not without flaws, but still, and it's a big deal for a post-USSR country.

But I don't think that will work. He will try to install a puppet government but it will be overthrown I think.

I just don't see Putin succeeding is separating Ukraine from the West.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But I think this move will get Ukraine to join NATO faster and gain more Western alignment.

But I don't think that will work. He will try to install a puppet government but it will be overthrown I think.

I just don't see Putin succeeding is separating Ukraine from the West.

It won’t be overthrown if Russia keeps a permanent military presence in Ukraine, which is what many experts believe will be the case.


"Wanting keeps me from the awareness I already have it. I already am it.” — Byron Katie

 

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3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

This is the president....i think that's how disasters happen

IMG_20220225_195559.jpgIMG_20220225_195057.jpg  IMG_20220225_194854.jpg

Fingers on the triggers.

No bueno.

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13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

20 hours ago, Fleetinglife said:

@Carl-Richard

 

Can't get rid of this for some reason on my mobile version of this forum so I will have to post it, sorry in advance for unnecessarily spamming the thread with this. 


''society is culpable in not providing free education for all and it must answer for the night which it produces. If the soul is left in darkness sins will be committed. The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but he who causes the darkness.” ― Victor Hugo, Les Misérables'

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47 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I just don't see Putin succeeding is separating Ukraine from the West.

I've heard ideas circulating that they might try to attempt federalize or confederalize the whole country in order to somehow integrate the Donetsk and Luhansk in order to get away of the foundational UN principle territorial integrity and sovereignty harming problem and international recognition aspect in the long term after their attempt of an equivalent of an "regime change operation" and change the flag and policy of Ukranization and Ukranian citizen building to acknowledge the 20% of the Russian speaking minority and force a change of a flag to include that historical ties and historical connections to the Russians and the Russian speaking language. Here were some of the examples of unconfirmed  speculation online regarding the change of the flag and even perhaps the countries full name:

"Federal Republic of Ukraine" (First flag in order) 

"People's Republic of Ukraine" (Second flag in order) 

and ongoing flags going around accommodating and circulating regarding that constituional and official country name change: 

(the white added is said to serve to symbolise the Russian and Slavic historical and cultural ties (with classic Panslavic tricolors symbols of the 19th century) to Ukraine and the Ukraine region and the Russian nationality and language there and the multiethnicity, multinationality present in the country - these are some of the speculations I see going on) 

Important note: None of this is yet official as the official plans of the RF going forward with the attempt and aim of what kind of regime change plan they have and still want to aim and achieve within the country. 

 

Screenshot_20220225_172824.jpg

Screenshot_20220225_172844.jpg

Edited by Fleetinglife

''society is culpable in not providing free education for all and it must answer for the night which it produces. If the soul is left in darkness sins will be committed. The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but he who causes the darkness.” ― Victor Hugo, Les Misérables'

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44 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

It won’t be overthrown if Russia keeps a permanent military presence in Ukraine, which is what many experts believe will be the case.

But that's like occupation. I don't see that working.

This would be worse then Iraq.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But that's like occupation. I don't see that working.

This would be worse then Iraq.

Yes to an extent. If any imposed government could even stand after this and the worldwide pressure. Their next revolution, would never start peacefully given the history like the last, only by continued civil unrest.

Its a bigger country, better terrain for resistance fighters not just a desert, lots of countries willing to ship arms there with longer borders for entry. A more resistant population even from the start, Iraq had some element of the military for example that welcomed the invaders, until foolish decisions were made to stand them all down.

I was going to say Ukraine has less radicalisation which is true but not less potential resistance fighters. They've opened up their weapon stockpiles to anyone and others outside of Ukraine are still willing to arm them. A few from other countries have gone to join them already and its just days in.

Then you add the element of the population calling NATO weak in its response, and they have incentive to show strength and keep arming resistance, showing a response and increasing border security. The predictable rise of the right.

I saw the UK defense secretary in an interview say the UK would continue to arm Ukraine. To be honest I would never say this about Syria, Iraq, Lybia or the others wars I have lived through but this felt like an attack on Europe and so I want them to get whatever weapons will help defend it. There is popular support for that right now over here, with all major political parties working together and no political point scoring off each other which is a rare unity for UK politics and popular will.

*I think the EU is also sending further anti air weaponry as well.

Edited by BlueOak

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3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This would be worse then Iraq.

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This would be worse then Iraq.

On 25/02/2022 at 2:38 AM, Fleetinglife said:

@Carl-Richard

 

Again with the same problem on mobile device, sorry for that and the needless spam. 


''society is culpable in not providing free education for all and it must answer for the night which it produces. If the soul is left in darkness sins will be committed. The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but he who causes the darkness.” ― Victor Hugo, Les Misérables'

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4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This would be worse then Iraq.

The only difference now currently being is that the Americans and the Coalition actually succeded, in their regime change goal and op and somewhat future idea and vision for Iraq ultimately what they wanted with in the first place since the late 1980s and 1990s though they were willing to pay a heavy price and risks in blood and treasure for it in their population and the Iraqi one and of course the way to service their external government debt and deficit. 

Russia is actually now trying to learn exactly from that and try to implement it from America's playbook regarding Ukraine, and the reason why Putin slightly hinted, in the wake of the world seeing and info leaking via Wikileaks regarding the Iraq experience, at Bush during one of peaks of the Iraq war in 2008 before the major withdrawals in 2011 and the Bucharest Summit in 2008 about Ukraine's status to Russia as well in geopolitics and it's political course and direction of its culture that they aimed to steer it at close to Russia, we can say, dare to guess or speculate on some grounds based on the way this invasion is being carried that the invasion plans as a preemptive were probably drafted back then, at the announcement in the Bucharest Summit, even during open pro-Russia collaborative  politicians in Ukraine's mandates. 

Edited by Fleetinglife

''society is culpable in not providing free education for all and it must answer for the night which it produces. If the soul is left in darkness sins will be committed. The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but he who causes the darkness.” ― Victor Hugo, Les Misérables'

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8 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

ukraine has been independent for 8 years

*facepalm* yeah you seem to be an expert on Ukraine indeed

Edited by hello1234

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8 hours ago, Alex_R said:

 

I agree 100% with this, sadly majority of population seems to support the populist clowns who are crazy enough to drag all the country to a massacre for just a little more attention . I'm sure that after this Zelensky will flee to a nice rich first world european country and still "fighting the Russians" super super comfy via twitter.

 

Diplomacy? no, thanks. I want more followers.

Judging by what you’re writing you have no faintest clue about what is going on in Ukraine. Sadly, the people who have no clue always scream the loudest. 

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@Leo Gura
Male Vulnerability.

Sorry to tag you again. It occurred to me when I reflect that a video on vulnerability and men. I don't have the words to give you the title it would need or the full perception of it, also the stigma or resistance that would be there attached to it (shame).  I see men act in a emotionally charged way when they feel any vulnerability and this applies to men leading countries, alliances, anything on the macro scale or down to myself too. I think exploration of that might help on healthier ways men can deal with it, without having to directly talk about ongoing events.

*This could be expanded to a lot of different topics.

Edited by BlueOak

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9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But I think this move will get Ukraine to join NATO faster and gain more Western alignment.

EU and NATO won't accept new states unless there are no border disputes with any of its direct neighbors. That means dropping the claim on Crimea and the 2 new artificially created republics in eastern Ukraine, which won't happen. Also, by federalizing Ukraine, there would be pro Russian federations which will stop Ukraine from taking steps into getting into NATO. Ukraine hasn't joined NATO because some member states opposed it, and because Putin's Russia actively stopped them. Even if Russia stopped being a dick tomorrow, Ukraine couldn't instantly join the alliance. It's more complicated than that. 

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2 hours ago, Ryan_047 said:

Ukraine couldn't instantly join the alliance.

No one was saying instantly. It was planned for a long time. Which is exactly what Putin feared and what lead to this war. But now with the shitshow that Putin created, Ukraine will be even more aligned with the West. Even if Ukraine doesn't join NATO any time soon, Western support for Ukraine will only increase. Ukraine will not just be a quiet loyal puppet state of Russia. If Putin expects that he is fooling himself.

And at this point I am inclined to support Ukraine's entry into NATO. Before Putin could be compromised with. But not now.

The deal with Putin should have been: chill out and we promise Ukraine won't join NATO. But if you attack Ukraine, Ukraine will definitely enter NATO.

Well, too late for that now. Now Ukraine deserves as much anti-Russian support as it can get.

Putin made the morally wrong move. Now he has no moral high ground.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And at this point I am inclined to support Ukraine's entry into NATO.

Ukraine is gone. It will be under Russian control, as it was during the Soviet era. 


"Wanting keeps me from the awareness I already have it. I already am it.” — Byron Katie

 

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2 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

Ukraine is gone. It will be under Russian control, as it was during the Soviet era. 

The Soviet era is gone.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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This is a great example of healthy blue. 
President getting amongst the trenches, declining offers for evacuation and defending his country. 

8FC95730-66B4-4F37-9E83-A8BE015FB2C8.png

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Russia's population is declining rapidly, it failed to catch up with the fourth industrial revolution, and at the same time its economy is tanking. This is what Putin thinks: I need to act now while Russia is still capable of facilitating and financing a large scale war. In geopolitics promises don't mean much. NATO and the US can promise jack shit but there is no mechanism to enforce those promises.

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