Vynce

Request to Leo, to make blog post/video about Putin behavior in Ukraine.

349 posts in this topic

6 minutes ago, something_else said:

How is what you're doing any different? This is a silly point to make when you're also unwilling to compromise even slightly on your position... lol

What position? That putin’s silly excuses and paranoia are not a reason to start a war in my country? And that there’s no “BUT” to it? What Leo is saying is that putin is not justified to invade Ukraine, BUT… 

It’s kind of like in abusive relationships - “I am sorry for hitting you, BUT……” if there’s a “BUT” the “I’m sorry” doesn’t really mean anything.

Edited by hello1234

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29 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

So what would be the reason?

That's like me telling you: "I'll put a loaded gun next to your mom's head. But don't worry. I'm an enlightened guru. I won't ever have a reason to pull the trigger."

That wouldn't help you sleep well at night.

And one reason could be: To depose Putin.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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22 minutes ago, hello1234 said:

@Knowledge Hoarder don’t bother, he will never admit being wrong about anything and just keep gaslighting to maintain his original narrative.

All I said was that the US perspective on this issue definitely self-biased.

Of course Putin's perspective is also self-biased. But our job here is to see past our own self-biases.

22 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

@Leo Gura Your thoughts on Vaush saying that he does support a regime change in Russian, leadership (Putin) assassination, etc…?

That could start a nuclear war for sure. Bad idea in my opinion and it probably wouldn't work either. You think Putin is easy to kill?


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

That's like me telling you: "I'll put a loaded gun next to your mom's head. But don't worry. I'm an enlightened guru. I won't ever have a reason to pull the trigger."

That wouldn't help you sleep well at night.

And one reason could be: To depose Putin.

This is such a straw man argument ?‍♀️ 

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7 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

If my mom was an abusive, sadistic bitch, I'd probably let you pull the trigger? the same way many Russian people would gladly let Putin get deposed.

Yeah, but the trick is that your mom is wearing a nuclear suicide vest.

Anyways.... I don't have strong opinions about this issue. We must see how it plays out. Obviously I don't approve of the invasion.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah, but the trick is that your mom is wearing a nuclear suicide vest.

So your solution is to let the mom get whatever she wants because she’s crazy? Even though before you said the mom was not crazy and can be justified in her terrorist acts… ?‍?

Edited by hello1234

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12 minutes ago, hello1234 said:

So your solution is to let the mom get whatever she wants because she’s crazy? Even though before you said the mom was not crazy and can be justified in her terrorist acts… ?‍?

1) She's not crazy

2) No, she doesn't get whatever she wants. Obviously there should be push back once she acts out.

3) I explicitly said she is not justified in lashing out.

Please don't turn this into some kind of ideological matter. I have no ideology on this. Just look at the various perspectives and keep your mind open. And examine your national self-biases.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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Just now, Leo Gura said:

1) She's not crazy

2) No, she doesn't get whatever she wants. Obviously there should be push back once she acts out.

If she’s wearing a nuclear suicide vest that kind of implies she’s crazy - “my way or we all die bitches”

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19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

1) She's not crazy

2) No, she doesn't get whatever she wants. Obviously there should be push back once she acts out.

3) I explicitly said she is not justified in lashing out.

Please don't turn this into some kind of ideological matter. I have no ideology on this. Just look at the various perspectives and keep your mind open. And examine your national self-biases.

So you’re just playing a devils advocate when something this horrible is happening to a country? Where’s the empathy in this? It’s like me pointing the gun to your moms head and telling you to give me reasons as to why I should shoot her. 

Edited by hello1234

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1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Back in 2008 I believe. It is in the plans.

If Ukraine joins NATO, the US could position missiles 5 mins from Moscow. This is what Putin cannot stomach. The US does not need that much power. US is being over-protective in this case. You don't need to have a gun pointed at Putin's head.

You know, US experts on history recently said that there was never any formal agreement made between Russia and NATO that NATO would not expand eastward.

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The Iraq-Ukraine comparison, justification analogy and manufacturing attempt for invasion justification on the Russian side doesn't hold water either as well that I see going as a false equivalences and comparison justification narrative, that if Russia didn't invade just now, US would allow Ukraine to in the most exaggerated invented claim "re-nuclearize" and put missile systems five minutes from Moscow directly threatening it, this some backward end of the Cold War trauma being held back, suppressed and projected onto others intentions, viewing them through the lense of the exclusive hegemony of the past and with no subsequent more gracious, sensitive and conscious evolutionary step or leap taking place within the West aims and approach during that in between time in foreign policy. 

Saddam Hussein and Iraqi people he was brutally oppressing and terrorising under his rule was first directly helped and assisted in his military officer led coup/putsch and purging of suspected communists and their political leaders at the time within Iraq for him and his party to come to power, and later allow to solidify it was implemented by the US/UK int. services, then the US tacitly militarily funded, aided and backed him again against Iran, then they saw what monstrosities, horrors and atrocities they have supported and almost complacently allowed to be unleashed upon the Iraqi people during his rule, especially the religious minorities and sects not holding onto power and the Kurds, they were outraged by this, felt a responsibility of what they helped and fostered to be unleashed within the country they then themselves bear also the direct responsibility to help in any means then necessary of then correcting it as soon as they can and by using any opportunity that may come forth or any means at their disposal and already planned back then of deposing their helped mistake, then the sort of unprovoked, exaggerated full-scale invasion of Kuwait, with the aim of occupation, by Iraq, oil prices suddenly jumped, skyrocketed on the world market, happened and then they already planned they have to foster the conditions in Iraq by exacerbating desperation for change via sanctions, which was already suffering deeply and minorities being actively persecuted there and subject to unrestricted war criminal activity for possibly rebelling against the horrid, inhumane conditions the country found itself in, to depose of him by any means necessary and waiting for any opportunity for that to come in the near future, then of course 9/11 terrorist attack happened and the pretext to manufacture and invent the justification for invading Iraq as a direct threat to the US's security was put forth. 

Ukraine and it's current political leaders however didn't do anything even close of the following on the even same level that Saddam did and was doing, the most they did was discriminate and forcefully oust some pro-Russian people from the government in Ukraine in order to avoid Russian government having a say in their domestic politics, perform some delustration and bans of former communists and officials connected to the Russian state that aimed to also have an overwhelming past Soviet ties colonial influence and an overwhelming say in and control of their country that way and discriminate some pro-Russian insisting Russian exclusively, not willing to learn a bit of Ukranian, speaking people on their unwillingness to fully assimilate and integrate as functioning tolerant citizens of the Ukrainian country, and not foster pro-Russian ethno-political separatist desires and fantasies aimed to destabilise the country and to keep it ina subservient position to the Russian state in Moscow. During the reaction to the 2014 Russo-Ukranian fratricidal war in the Donbass, now spread in the whole of Ukraine, some Ukrainians embraced and also get re-radicalized into more extreme, toxic and unhealthy, more exclusionary form of their Ukranian nationalism as reaction to the horrors of it and in part some slight aspects of historical revisionism but that was due to an attempt to solidfy their distinct identity, history and nationality as Ukranians as different, separate and not the same and identical as the Russian one due to the, seems now, justifiable fear of the overwhelming threat they felt coming from the colonial, destabilising, more overt brute imperialistic ambitions of the Russian state in Ukraine and their ethnic separatists collaborators and political sattelites there, but unlike Saddam no Ukranian statesmen or president since 2014 aimed to directly threaten or destabilise a neighbouring country or did they openly persecute any minorities in Ukraine, they only had to respond to what they thought was the aim of the Russian state to destabilise, subjugate and deny their people's sovereignty and independence by actors and political influences within in it working not directly on behalf on the whole of all Ukranian peoples interest but on behalf of the Russian state aimed to subjugate, destabilise and recolonize their country again to the second world country such as the RF. 

Edited by Fleetinglife

''society is culpable in not providing free education for all and it must answer for the night which it produces. If the soul is left in darkness sins will be committed. The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but he who causes the darkness.” ― Victor Hugo, Les Misérables'

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1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You don't need to have a gun pointed at Putin's head.

I think today proves we do.


"Not believing your own thoughts, you’re free from the primal desire: the thought that reality should be different than it is. You realise the wordless, the unthinkable. You understand that any mystery is only what you yourself have created. In fact, there’s no mystery. Everything is as clear as day. It’s simple, because there really isn’t anything. There’s only the story appearing now. And not even that.” — Byron Katie

 

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38 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

You know, US experts on history recently said that there was never any formal agreement made between Russia and NATO that NATO would not expand eastward.

1) I don't buy that. Formal is too technical of a standard. A nation's security cannot be subject to formalities. The US exploited Russia pretty bad after the USSR fell in the 90's. Putin is still pissed about those injustices.

2) The foremost US expert negotiator (I don't recall his name) who dealt with Russia back in the 90's said that the expansion of NATO was the single greatest threat to war with Russia and would lead to disaster. He was not listened to. So here we are. The expansion of NATO isn't just limited to Ukraine. Ukraine is just the straw that breaks the camel's back. It was an escalation. NATO has kept expanding for decades, backing Putin into an ever tighter corner.

Again, I am not saying this allows Putin to invade Ukraine. But you also have to see the Russian national survival agenda here. If you back a wild animal into a corner deep enough, don't call it irrational or crazy when it lashes out at you. "But I didn't formally attack it" is not a serious position. You don't need to formally attack an animal for it to attack you out of insecurity.

32 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

I think today proves we do.

Do it doesn't. You are not going to kill Putin without killing half the world.

And even if you killed him, it would not solve anything. Someone even worse than him would seize the power vacuum. A true tyrant. And he would be out for blood. You cannot solve Russia's problems and corruption by taking out Putin.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

1) I don't buy that. Formal is too technical of a standard. A nation's security cannot be subject to formalities. The US exploited Russia pretty bad after the USSR fell in the 90's. Putin is still pissed about those injustices.

2) The foremost US expert negotiator (I don't recall his name) who dealt with Russia back in the 90's said that the expansion of NATO was the single greatest threat to war with Russia and would lead to disaster. He was not listened to. So here we are. The expansion of NATO isn't just limited to Ukraine. Ukraine is just the straw that breaks the camel's back. It was an escalation. NATO has kept expanding for decades, backing Putin into an ever tighter corner.

Again, I am not saying this allows Putin to invade Ukraine. But you also have to see the Russian national survival agenda here. If you back a wild animal into a corner deep enough, don't call it irrational or crazy when it lashes out.

Do it doesn't. You are not going to kill Putin without killing half the world.

And even if you killed him, it would not solve anything. Someone even worse than him would seize the power vacuum. A true tyrant. And he would be out for blood. You cannot solve Russia's problems and corruption by taking out Putin.

Those countries in the Baltic, Poland, Romania, etc willfully joined NATO however. It’s not like they were forced or bribed to do that. They all genuinely felt security concerns being next to Russia. Who knows if Russia would of been this benevolent non-violent state if they didn’t have their neighbors join or would Russia still have had its eyes set on expansion and regaining control over territory lost in the fall of the Soviet Union? It’s not so clear. Obviously there was a lack of diplomacy and communication around this issue though.

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I swear no one watches the actualized.org videos on this site lmao

"Stop looking for who is to blame, instead start asking, what is the system"

People seem to be arguing like people in a bar would argue. Apply the teachings.


My name jeff

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People get tribal.

I get the argument that it’s easy to go meta from my living room half way around the world, I’m not in Ukraine, but this type of level headed approach is better damage control.

one should at least try to understand it if they can, regardless of who’s the bully, bad guy, etc. 

what’s the most wise solution?

Edited by Gidiot

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10 minutes ago, Ulax said:

I swear no one watches the actualized.org videos on this site lmao

Lol

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14 minutes ago, Ulax said:

I swear no one watches the actualized.org videos on this site lmao

"Stop looking for who is to blame, instead start asking, what is the system"

People seem to be arguing like people in a bar would argue. Apply the teachings.

When survival is at stake, epistemology and consciousness goes out the window.


أشهد أن لا إله إلا الله وأشهد أن ليو رسول الله

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16 minutes ago, Ulax said:

I swear no one watches the actualized.org videos on this site lmao

"Stop looking for who is to blame, instead start asking, what is the system"

People seem to be arguing like people in a bar would argue. Apply the teachings.

The more your survival is threatened the less time, need or want you have for seeing a bigger picture, because the here and now become what is critically important. You have to understand people at a minimum go back to what they are comfortable with when they are stressed, but when there is an actual potential to lose your life or at least for me to see war spreading over the continent, its considerably harder to then step back and do systematic thinking.

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2 hours ago, Lyubov said:

Those countries in the Baltic, Poland, Romania, etc willfully joined NATO however. It’s not like they were forced or bribed to do that.

I tend to agree. However, from Russia's POV this is of little succor.

If all of Europe unites against Russia, this will make Russia feel threatened. This much should have been obvious to the people building up NATO. If I get everyone in your neighborhood to ally against you, you're gonna feel pissed off and insecure.

And although those countries were not forced, they probably were bribed and politically influenced. This is a subtle chess game.

I think one of the biggest things Putin is pushing back against with this war is just overall US influence and meddling in the region. The US exerts very powerful soft influence around the world which makes it hard for other countries to rise up or get fair treatment. The US uses a lot of soft bullying I think.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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