Judy2

I. Can't. Meditate.?

182 posts in this topic

@Judy2 

3 minutes ago, Judy2 said:

but the effect won't last for longer than a minute.

Infinity hides in the strangest places as it is not bound to time.

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@Leo Gura Don't you think that daydreaming can't be overcome by meditating daily for months? If one actually has an intention to not daydream before each session and make an effort into concentration? Isn't it like other skills that you suck at the beginning and you improve with lots and lots of practice? (daily up to 1h practice)

Edited by bazera

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1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Meditation is mostly ineffective unless you do it at a hardcore scale. In other words, book a cabin in the woods and force yourself to meditation for 10 days straight. Then you will see some progress and results. Although of course as soon as you return back to the "real world" you will lose most of those results.

This is why people meditate for decades and never awaken. It's highly inefficient. For it be effective you must do it very strictly and for long periods of uninterrupted time. Some people who simply have higher baseline consciousness can benefit from mediation rapidly, but this is the exception not the norm.

You can meditate every day for 40 years and never realize you are God. In fact I would bet on this for most people. This is the reality which explains why most of the world is asleep. And this is what most meditation teachers won't tell you.

God-realization is beyond anything a normal human can meditate her way to. An enormous amount of time can be wasted doing meditation in this weak-sauce way.

For me youve hit the nail on the head. Thats what exactly how im seeing meditation. I tried a lot of methods but never succeded even implementing them as a habit. I had more success with kriya yoga and other methods (doing nothing aka being, shamanic breathing). But arent these methods under the same problem as meditation? They also need alot of time being implemented and having some experiences. And all these experiences will never stay and fade away.

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35 minutes ago, Yali said:
40 minutes ago, Yali said:

@Judy2

Btw are you sitting without back support? You should never use back support when your practice hasn't gained enough momentum. It does make a huge difference in a matter of days.

 

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@Judy2 The experience itself may only last a moment but the insights gained are everlasting.

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@Michal__ i lie down most of the time. Would you say sitting is better?

@cetus yes. In theory this is clear... now or never.

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1 minute ago, Judy2 said:

@Michal__ i lie down most of the time. Would you say sitting is better?

@cetus yes. In theory this is clear... now or never.

Yes, sitting is way better. Doesn't have to be cross legged but has to be without back support. It can be on the edge of the bed for example.

And since you don't have your concentration developed you should stick to simple breath counting for a few months, ideally for a few hours everyday. After the first month you should try to focus on a pleasant physical sensation, instead of the breath about 40 minutes into the session. You might access your first jhãna. 

After you get to first jhãna you should incorporate noting practice or body scanning. (if your goal is insight).

If your goal is to enhance your life, then you should focus mainly on concentration work.

49 minutes ago, Yali said:
53 minutes ago, Yali said:

 

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Just breathe (through your belly).

That's all there is to it.

Also; pick up an instrument. - Although it might take a while until you get real good at it and become able to 'slip into a meditative state' simply by playing.

Observing thoughts = getting lost in them.

There are no thoughts. Only breath. Only feel.

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@Judy2

Any thought continues to seem true while believed. Another way to express ‘believed’, is ‘engaged in’, or, ‘engaged in the content of’. That distinction between content of thought(s), and awareness of thought(s) is ‘where it’s at’, but must be directly experienced via (the) practice. 

An analogy: Imagine sitting and reading a book. There is - a book (thought). In engaging in, or reading the book… it is as if awareness is ‘into’ a story. Yet, at any point in the experience, the book can be closed, and it is clear awareness is aware of  ‘the book’, and is not, ‘in the story’. 

 

Non-doing (aka non-doership) is the heart of Do Nothing Meditation. That might be helpful, but it can also be highly triggering & potentially frustrating, and thus is much lower on the list. 

It can also be helpful to physically point to ‘who’ the thoughts are about. In attempting to point to ‘who’ is trying, ‘who’ is struggling. Of course it is realized that ‘who’ can not be physically pointed to. The thought arises, ‘me!’, ‘that’s who!’… thus, then, ‘who’ are the thoughts about. (You are you… there isn’t another you which the thoughts are about). This is content of thought(s), vs, awareness of thought(s). 


MEDITATIONS TOOLS  ActualityOfBeing.com  GUIDANCE SESSIONS

NONDUALITY LOA  My Youtube Channel  THE TRUE NATURE

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Just now, Nahm said:

@Judy2

Non-doing (aka non-doership) is the heart of Do Nothing Meditation. That might be helpful, but it can also be highly triggering & potentially frustrating, and thus is much lower on the list. 

Before anyone can do the do nothing technique with a good success rate they have to have enough experience with concentration practice and/or get into a concentrated state before the session.

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@Judy2 Have you ever done any distance running?


My Youtube Channel- Light on Earth “We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle and knows.”― Robert Frost

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@Michal__

Meditation is the allowing of the settling of the activity of thought that there is a separate self, and is not the believing of the thoughts (that someone succeeds, has to have prerequisites, or could possibly get into a state). Nothing is enough for the ego. ? 


MEDITATIONS TOOLS  ActualityOfBeing.com  GUIDANCE SESSIONS

NONDUALITY LOA  My Youtube Channel  THE TRUE NATURE

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11 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Michal__

Meditation is the allowing of the settling of the activity of thought that there is a separate self, and is not the believing of the thoughts (that someone succeeds, has to have prerequisites, or could possibly get into a state). Nothing is enough for the ego. ? 

One can do that even while using a technique appropriate for their current mental lifting skill level.

Edit: tbh it's actually okay to follow a compulsion to try techniques that are above current skill level. But meditation can be a very technical thing. The super concentrated state resulting from do nothing once in a while for the untrained person can become an every-try occurrence once the basics are dialed in to a sufficient degree.

Edited by Michal__

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3 hours ago, Judy2 said:

@AsEyeAm The habit is already there, but it always ends the same way with me daydreaming or worrying.

What is the worry about? Is it about the same thoughts over and over?
 

If you're sitting in meditation and you feel like there is something important you have to do in the near future, try writing it down somewhere and tell yourself that you're going to do it either immediately or make a decision when the occasion arises (this a good habit to have in general, not just in meditation; your mind will be generally less cluttered). It can be something as trivial as remembering to go to the store, or suggestions for your grocery list, or it can be something more substantial like your life purpose or ways to handle a personal relationship or a job decision. It also doesn't hurt to get up and do something that you forgot to do earlier (like taking out the clothes from the washer).
 

In general, monkey mind feeds on uncertainty and indecision, especially when it's not preoccupied with daily tasks. If your mind thinks it has a good reason to be preoccupied, it will remind you of that. I'm saying you should maybe listen to your mind, take some of its advice, but only if you think it's being reasonable (don't capitulate to "I want orange juice right now!" – some of it you just have to take). It might be hard to separate out the signal from the noise in the beginning, but over time it might make a difference. Over time, whatever noise your mind makes will either be something important or golden nuggets of wisdom.
 

Additional help for eliminating uncertainty: always decide how long you will meditate for before you start (use a timer), do it at the same time of the day every single day, and always expect that there will be frustrations so it doesn't come as a surprise. Rewire your mind to think that any eventual frustration is only a sign of progress and that you're indeed doing the daily practice as intended. Be streamlined and unwavering in the choice of technique as well. If you're going to switch between different techniques, make sure it's not causing excess uncertainty: "Am I doing things right?"; "Have I done this technique for long enough?"; "Would it be good to switch now or in 5 more minutes?"


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

 

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1 hour ago, Judy2 said:

@AsEyeAm The habit is already there, but it always ends the same way with me daydreaming or worrying.

Pushing and training your capacity to stay focused on a single "anything" if the habit is already formed would be my recommendation. In a very strict but gentle way. Strict in the sense that you are relentless at putting your attention back to where you've committed to focusing/concentrating on. And gentle in the sense of if/when your mind wanders away from what you're focusing on to just remember that it's an inevitable part of the process if your mind is monkey-ing around. And it doesn't mean you're not doing the practice correctly, quite the contrary. 

If you have a habit of working out in the gym, and you don't get the results you thought you were going to get, you got to switch up your routine. Same goes with meditation. The routine you do should constantly push you to the edge. It should always be challenging. In other words, challenging your capacity to stay focused on a single something would be the purpose of the habit/routine. 

And there's no right habit or method to this. Maybe running helps you focus. Maybe closing your eyes and repeating a mantra. Maybe closing your eyes and focusing on your breath. Maybe staring into the flame of a candle. Literally a gazillion ways to develop focus/concentration.

There's alot of practical relative benefits to this in the outside world that can be realized in a short amount of time. 

If you're looking to grasp the deeper insights of life, then consider developing a "lazer like focus" as a fundamental building block towards that goal. I don't think any kind of self realization practice can help you grasp the deeper insights of life for yourself directly in a relatively short amount of time. That takes a lifelong commitment. And as alot of people have pointed out it you may not even grasp it through traditional meditation. Especially if you were born in a fast paced 1st world country.

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Meditation and spiritual practices have been very beneficial for me. They helped me achieve a focused quiet peaceful mind. Much of the time my mind is silent unless I am consciously choosing to think. That wasn't the case in the past. My mind was running all the time like a computer program that wouldn't turn off. 

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1 hour ago, bazera said:

@Leo Gura Don't you think that daydreaming can't be overcome by meditating daily for months? If one actually has an intention to not daydream before each session and make an effort into concentration? Isn't it like other skills that you suck at the beginning and you improve with lots and lots of practice? (daily up to 1h practice)

As I said, it must be done rigorously or it will not work.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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2 hours ago, Judy2 said:

I've tried. A hundred times. Three hundred times. Sevenhundred times. Nothing changes.

What are you expecting will happen?

 

2 hours ago, Judy2 said:

I always start by making the commitment to "just observe my thoughts", but after a few seconds I'm lost in thought again.

So you get lost in thought. What happens then?

 

2 hours ago, Judy2 said:

Or I'll try to turn my gaze inwards to detect any position i am still identified with, to then see that that itself is something that is seen, disidentify and go one level meta (that's the theory). But after a few minutes, if not less, i stop. Because it seems so hopeless.

Hopeless how? 

2 hours ago, Judy2 said:

It doesn't work. It's really frustrating and even though i try every day, there's no progress whatsoever. The lack of success is absolutely discouraging and i wonder if i'll ever get past where I'm at right now. It's literally been years without any siginificant progress.

Exactly what progress is it you want to achieve?

2 hours ago, Judy2 said:

It might be helpful to have more tangible goals, some frame i can hold onto. Something that makes it seem more manageable. I don't know what that would be though... i don't know how to navigate through this chaos.

 

Any advice? I'll take anything, really.

I'm no meditation expert but what you could do is either put up some clear goals of what you want to achieve with meditation or you could try something else which is to drop all  goals and expectations while you sit.

Just sit in silence and see whatever comes up. No goals. No trying to push things to happen. No state to achieve.

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