No answer, blank mind

[roopepa]

A while ago me and my therapist were pondering on how the humanity is doing. She asked me "why do you think there is so much suffering? Why isn't everyone just relaxing, having fun and thinking positively?" In the context of our discussion, she was basically asking what is keeping humanity from greater well-being.

A few months ago I would have probably said something like "it's because of the ego" or "survival" or "fear" or "low consciousness" or whatever. But I've come to see that these are just narratives. There is really no reason, nothing true in following those thought-stories, even though they might seem to make sense.

So I just sat quietly for a moment, until I admitted that I don't know. It seems like there is no actual cause and effect, no story, no reason behind this suffering and dysfunction in the world.

Same goes with "why is there something rather than nothing". Blank mind, no answer. Why to even assume there is a "why", a cause?

Why are people afraid? Why are people judgemental? Why are people aggressive?

Blank. No reason. No cause. Things are what they are and that's it.

Why don't I feel like Home, why do I feel separate from God and absolute being?

Blank

Any of you get what I mean? Such a peculiar thing.

[Nahm]

Yap. 

Suffering isn’t ‘in a world’. Also isn’t in cessation. 

8 minutes ago, roopepa said:

Why don't I feel like Home, why do I feel separate from God and absolute being?

Maybe excessive listening to verbiage about God and absolute being contributes to believing the thoughts that there is this other thingy, and therein indirectly, a separate I. Go into the blank, so to speak. 

[WelcometoReality]

@roopepa Rest in the blank. ?

[BipolarGrowth]

Humanity suffers because it perceives what is as an issue. If there is no problem or issue, there is no suffering. 

[Bazooka Jesus]

Perfect. "No answer" is the REAL answer. 

[Breakingthewall]

humanity suffers because it has been repressing itself for millennia, crushing the foot to fit the shoe. to produce castrated individuals who fit their position. until recently, to kill each other, to enslave, to submit. We suffer because we have inherited that shit and we have to conquer our freedom with great difficulty, a lot of passion. is not: meditate and think positive. no. You have to go very deep, understand your heritage, the chains with which you were imprisoned. it is a work for genius, a true odyssey.  

This war is not won on the meditation cushion alone, although it is essential. you have to win it on the street, in the reality of this world. 

people suffer, they have shitty lives, frustrated, without love, without any joy, mired in idiocy. The human being is bitter and it would be better for him to disappear if he continues like this. it has to evolve, but I don't know if this is possible on a large scale

Edited February 9, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[peanutspathtotruth]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

humanity suffers because it has been repressing itself for millennia, crushing the foot to fit the shoe. to produce castrated individuals who fit their position. until recently, to kill each other, to enslave, to submit. We suffer because we have inherited that shit and we have to conquer our freedom with great difficulty, a lot of passion. is not: meditate and think positive. no. You have to go very deep, understand your heritage, the chains with which you were imprisoned. it is a work for genius, a true odyssey.  

This war is not won on the meditation cushion alone, although it is essential. you have to win it on the street, in the reality of this world.

Seeing this as a war is the first assumption I'd let go. How do you know what it is? Maybe it's just a play. Maybe it's all only and solely for the purpose of self-knowledge of God/Love, and this phase "we" are in is either a tool to raise our consciousness by forgiving all the pain, or a test to see how deeply we can love or both. If I am not in deep suffering and feeling clear and conscious, this seems more appropriate than this being a war. But I don't know, this, too, is just a narrative.

@roopepa Your post truly spoke to me. It showed me how many narratives I have built up over the past years. And after having a big backlash from serious spiritual work, I see how attaching to these narratives has created smart little escapes for the ego to not practice simply being in not-knowing, blank suchness. I'm back at throwing myself into this immense silence, and you inspired me to "get this" again. Thank you <3

[Breakingthewall]

13 minutes ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

Seeing this as a war is the first assumption I'd let go. How do you know what it is? Maybe it's just a play.

perhaps war is exaggerated, but the sadness and human frustration are enormous. the ego is crazy software that enslaves, and hardly anyone even knows it exists. of course it is all imaginary, we are in the imaginary labyrinth of the rats, but even imaginary we have to get out of it and make it possible for others to get out. True, it's like a game, hard but a game. but be careful not to play well, it gets ugly

 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[peanutspathtotruth]

9 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

perhaps war is exaggerated, but the sadness and human frustration are enormous. the ego is crazy software that enslaves, and hardly anyone even knows it exists. of course it is all imaginary, we are in the imaginary labyrinth of the rats, but even imaginary we have to get out of it and make it possible for others to get out. True, it's like a game, hard but a game. but be careful not to play well, it gets ugly

I find it fascinating how the view of ego and suffering changes based on level of consciousness.
At times, it looks like the saddest drama imaginable. At times, it looks like pure, meaningless suffering. At times, it looks like nothing at all. At times, it looks like the most flimsy creative thought just popping up for a short eternity. At times, it looks like infinite love exploring itself. At times, it looks like humanity, the earth, and the physical universe are the center of reality. At times, it looks like humanity, the earth, and the physical universe are the only plane of reality we can see, but it feels like there could be infinitely more. At times, it looks like all this has meaning, at times, it looks like it doesn't. At times, it looks like we have to choose love over fear. At times, it looks like there could never be something like choice.

What does that say about the ACTUAL truth of all this? Do we really have to fight anything or anyone? Are you sure?

[roopepa]

11 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

humanity suffers because it has been repressing itself for millennia, crushing the foot to fit the shoe. to produce castrated individuals who fit their position. until recently, to kill each other, to enslave, to submit. We suffer because we have inherited that shit and we have to conquer our freedom with great difficulty, a lot of passion. is not: meditate and think positive. no. You have to go very deep, understand your heritage, the chains with which you were imprisoned. it is a work for genius, a true odyssey.  

This war is not won on the meditation cushion alone, although it is essential. you have to win it on the street, in the reality of this world. 

people suffer, they have shitty lives, frustrated, without love, without any joy, mired in idiocy. The human being is bitter and it would be better for him to disappear if he continues like this. it has to evolve, but I don't know if this is possible on a large scale

perhaps war is exaggerated, but the sadness and human frustration are enormous. the ego is crazy software that enslaves, and hardly anyone even knows it exists. of course it is all imaginary, we are in the imaginary labyrinth of the rats, but even imaginary we have to get out of it and make it possible for others to get out. True, it's like a game, hard but a game. but be careful not to play well, it gets ugly

blank

[Leo Gura]

18 hours ago, roopepa said:

Same goes with "why is there something rather than nothing". Blank mind, no answer.

That is just avoiding the question.

You haven't actually understood anything.

An empty mind is not Awakening.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

What does that say about the ACTUAL truth of all this? Do we really have to fight anything or anyone? Are you sure?

Agree in everything. the worst drama changes in an instant to nothing, with the right state of consciousness. but we humans have consciously cultivated the states that produce the most suffering. why? I guess it couldn't be any other way, it's in our character. War, possession, etc.

everything is illusion and the suffering of a schizophrenic in a baroque mental institution is illusion, but what would you do to avoid it? whatever it takes I guess. for similar suffering pervades the (imaginary) world. What else can we do but try to change that? On an individual level, no doubt. the understanding of the entire structure of the ego and its transcendence liberate and bring a happiness that always was but was veiled. What do you think about what was darkening that life, about the shit that made your life bitter? you embittered yourself, but to a large extent, you were programmed by others to do so. you have to fight against that. against any mental oppression, conditioned acceptance, fear. the human being is mostly a terrified idiot running at 10%, I think that to get out of there, you have to act, that's why I say a war

[softlyblossoming]

Great line of inquiry and conclusions, thank you for sharing. Great replies too, everybody else .

18 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

@roopepa Rest in the blank. ?

Shouldn't we disregard the blank as just more thoughts/wrong answers? Why is resting enough? Cheers, @WelcometoReality

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

18 hours ago, roopepa said:

Same goes with "why is there something rather than nothing". Blank mind, no answer.

That is just avoiding the question.

You haven't actually understood anything.

An empty mind is not Awakening.

A curios imposition, @Leo Gura. How should we continue to contemplate once the mind is empty of thoughts? I've heard that such a thing is only to spoil a good blankness with further proliferations of inherently deceptive hogwash (thoughts), but I'm dying to know how and why it isn't, if you'd be so inclined as to share a bit more about how you deal with mental silence and why you navigate it the way you do. Thank you for sparking this line of dialogue, fascinating stuff.

[peanutspathtotruth]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Agree in everything. the worst drama changes in an instant to nothing, with the right state of consciousness. but we humans have consciously cultivated the states that produce the most suffering. why? I guess it couldn't be any other way, it's in our character. War, possession, etc.

everything is illusion and the suffering of a schizophrenic in a baroque mental institution is illusion, but what would you do to avoid it? whatever it takes I guess. for similar suffering pervades the (imaginary) world. What else can we do but try to change that? On an individual level, no doubt. the understanding of the entire structure of the ego and its transcendence liberate and bring a happiness that always was but was veiled. What do you think about what was darkening that life, about the shit that made your life bitter? you embittered yourself, but to a large extent, you were programmed by others to do so. you have to fight against that. against any mental oppression, conditioned acceptance, fear. the human being is mostly a terrified idiot running at 10%, I think that to get out of there, you have to act, that's why I say a war

Yes, you have to "act", and I agree that to "fight" can metaphorically be helpful as in "fighting the inertia of conditioning". Internally though, this fighting is surrendering, understanding, forgiving. Externally, I am open to everything - you might need to oppose and to challenge for love to prevail.  

In the end, individually and collectively, I currently see it as the following: As soon as you see that all is infinite love, you can choose that truth over falling back into illusion. Then you choose, as the whole, to see yourself as what you really are. So the vessel then wants to bring love into every heart of its manifestations. And what does that require? Forgiveness, courage, boldness, love, softness etc. Each situation is different. And I agree: Today's landscape might require a lot of strength.

If we fight, we fight for love, as love, against love. Jesus was PISSED at those who deepened suffering. Because he saw the potential of heaven on earth. But ultimately, he knew why this was so and had complete forgiveness and compassion with each and everyone. 

I feel like God goes all the way into pain and suffering to test whether it chooses love despite all of this. It's not a mistake. It's God. It wants to explore what happens when unity is forgotten. Is love so infinite that it shines even in the darkest corner of hell? Of course it does.

 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, softlyblossoming said:

A curios imposition, @Leo Gura. How should we continue to contemplate once the mind is empty of thoughts? I've heard that such a thing is only to spoil a good blankness with further proliferations of inherently deceptive hogwash (thoughts), but I'm dying to know how and why it isn't, if you'd be so inclined as to share a bit more about how you deal with mental silence and why you navigate it the way you do. Thank you for sparking this line of dialogue, fascinating stuff.

A jackass has a blank mind. Doesn't mean that jackass understands jack shit

[peanutspathtotruth]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A jackass has a blank mind. Doesn't mean that jackass understands jack shit

Knowing self deception, I see how your advice will quickly get distorted into "Nice, let's understand reality and think, think, think, ..." and you have the ego loop contracting even more.

A silent mind does not mean you're just stupidly chilling your ass off. It opens up space for infinite intelligence to understand way beyond thought, or: through thought that far transcends what symbolic thinking could ever comprehend. The deep silence that is often pointed to is like having all thoughts at once, which is the same as having no thought - what you refer to as omniscience. I'd not simply dismiss that as empty-minded fools. Maybe, it is semantics though:

When we extend the definition of thought into the realm of abstract, high consciousness energy patterns of self-knowledge and creativity, we're more clear on what is said. Thought as most of us know it is a very low filtration of what thought can be (or ultimately IS), and what you're possibly referring to - a much higher degree of thought which is only reached, or made available, at very high levels of consciousness. 

And I think this is where your advice can possibly mislead. There needs to be made a nuanced distinction between mere conditioned psychological thought and Godly, essential, high consciousness thought, which has nothing to do with the human conditioning. This Godly thought is what creates all finitude, and it is this thought that can comprehend its own source. Of course, there is ultimately no difference - but practically speaking, to silence/transcend the low level of thought through complete mental silence is very important, otherwise we're stuck in it and will never understand our true Self on the level you're pointing to.

[softlyblossoming]

33 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A jackass has a blank mind. Doesn't mean that jackass understands jack shit

But Leoooo!!!! How do I contemplate and have a silent mind at the same time!? Let me guess, I "do the work" ? 

1 minute ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

practically speaking, to silence/transcend the low level of thought through complete mental silence is very important, otherwise we're stuck in it and will never understand our true Self on the level you're pointing to

But, peanuts!!!! That's boring as hell and takes all day, can't you just tell me a magical pointer that'll shortcut the entire process? More importantly, would you be open to the proposition, perhaps challenge, to attempt to describe the difference between normie thoughts and godly thoughts, so that I have some clues as to what I'm going for (is it the attitude you bring to the thinking)? And (sorry I know you're busy lol) can you please try to answer my above question to Leo as well? Sorry for asking so many questions ahahah 

[Leo Gura]

51 minutes ago, softlyblossoming said:

But Leoooo!!!! How do I contemplate and have a silent mind at the same time!?

When you contemplate you obviously don't have a silent mind. And that is not a problem.

There is a time for silent mind, and a time for active mind.

Silent mind is appropriate for after years of contemplating, once all your questions are answered. Then you can bask in silence. But trying to silence the mind too early by shutting down questioning and wondering is a mistake. It will just make you a silent jackass.

Silence is not the goal. The goal is total self-understanding. Silence will naturally come once that is achieved. Silence is not understanding, but deep understanding leads to profound silence.

[Tim R]

@Leo Gura What's the difference between contemplation and conceptual thinking? Or is contemplation just a fancy word for thinking?

[peanutspathtotruth]

48 minutes ago, softlyblossoming said:

But Leoooo!!!! How do I contemplate and have a silent mind at the same time!? Let me guess, I "do the work" ? 

But, peanuts!!!! That's boring as hell and takes all day, can't you just tell me a magical pointer that'll shortcut the entire process? More importantly, would you be open to the proposition, perhaps challenge, to attempt to describe the difference between normie thoughts and godly thoughts, so that I have some clues as to what I'm going for (is it the attitude you bring to the thinking)? And (sorry I know you're busy lol) can you please try to answer my above question to Leo as well? Sorry for asking so many questions ahahah 

Ultimately, all this is your Thought. God's thought. That's why I said that ultimately, there is no distinction. It's like when you're very low conscious, all your thoughts are very primitive and concerned with survival. When you transcend wrong identification, you see that thought is not occurring to you as a separate being, but that you are God thinking everything into existence. This gets thought out of misperception and welcomes infinite intelligence to manifest.

Meditation and contemplation are two practices and you should first treat them as such. If you decide to surrender, surrender. If you decide to contemplate, contemplate. Don't instill the wrong belief that you need to figure anything out. Just be curious. In the end, both practices organically merge, and it's one and the same.