Evoke

Jordan Peterson shares his views on the pandemic.

33 posts in this topic

What I got from his talk is this (and he said it in a very manipulative way, correct me If I'm wrong, just trying to break down his complicated views to simple —

Lets do whatever we have to do and do what has always been good for us. Why bother about the few who are going to die anyway? Why lose anything for them? Our response to the pandemic has cost more lives in other ways than the pandemic itself because who really cares who dies, those that die are tragic but let's not drag this any further and protect the interests of those who are alive because these interests matter much more than a few deaths here and there. We shouldn't have thought about science here and but more about vested interests of people. 

 

That's how I summarized his entire take. 

He is going the hardcore way. 

Not sure if I agree with him. 

All I'll say is this — Jordan's views fit Jordan perfectly. 

 

Edited by Preety_India

INFJ-T,ptsd,BPD, autism, anger issues

Cleared out ignore list today. 

..

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I would love to know Leo's take on Jordan's views about the pandemic response. 

I'm glad Jordan Peterson is not the President of America or not in government, or else we are fucked! I thought Trump was worse but.... 

 

Edited by Preety_India

INFJ-T,ptsd,BPD, autism, anger issues

Cleared out ignore list today. 

..

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Here's an interesting math experience for you:

Let's say the government is unsure if they want to prolong a lockdown. And let's say that they do it for a week only in order to reduce the damage and open up as soon as they consider it beneficial. So let's use the US as an example: 

With a population of 330.000.000 you are essentially taking 330.000.000/52= 6.346.153, which is 6,3 million years of quality life from people. So assuming the average person has 40 years left to live or so, this would be 158.653 lives. 

But hey, it's not like their taking away our lives, their just reducing our quality of life a bit. Let's say that the avarage persons life quality is cut in half, by 50%. So then it would be 158.653*50%= 79.326 lives. That is the collective damage just in quality of life not even talking about all the economic and social ramifications outside of that. 

A simple, but illustrating example which also underlines why individual freedom is important, and how we can end up undervaluing it. I mean what does one week matter for each and one of us individually? I mean, you would be selfish if you couldn't handle ONE more week?

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It's hilarous to me that people whine about Covid restrictions and inconveniences when our grandparents had to put their entires lives on hold to go fight Nazis.

Americans have become spoiled children.

"Oh no! I have to wear a mask on an airplane. It's just like 1984."

Lol

Our grandparents would look at all this anti-covid whining as the pathetic yelping of spoiled brats.

You can't go to your fave restuarant while people are dying from an unknow virus? OMG, what an outrage, what authoritarianism!


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's hilarous to me that people whine about Covid restrictions and inconveniences when our grandparents had to put their entires lives on hold to go fight Nazis.

Americans have become spoiled children.

"Oh no! I have to wear a mask on an airplane. It's just like 1984."

Lol

Do you think that libertarianism in the US will ever decline in the near future or is it only going to get worse before it ever ceases to become a dominant philosophy within the country?

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1 minute ago, Hardkill said:

Do you think that libertarianism in the US will ever decline in the near future or is it only going to get worse before it ever ceases to become a dominant philosophy within the country?

It will decline eventually as it bears hollow fruit. But probably not for at least several decades. We'd have to evolve out of Orange for that to pass.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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Just now, Leo Gura said:

It will decline eventually as it bears hollow fruit. But probably not for at least several decades. We'd have to evolve out of Orange for that to pass.

Damn. So, it won't decline until all of us currently alive will have become very old or have passed away in the far future?

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6 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Damn. So, it won't decline until all of us currently alive will have become very old or have passed away in the far future?

It will probably decline towards the end of our lifetime. So get used to living with this shit.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It will probably decline towards the end of our lifetime. So get used to living with this shit.

That really saddens me because it means that we will all be missing out on the more evolved function and greater level of happiness of a solid Green society.

Edited by Hardkill

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30 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's hilarous to me that people whine about Covid restrictions and inconveniences when our grandparents had to put their entires lives on hold to go fight Nazis.

Americans have become spoiled children.

"Oh no! I have to wear a mask on an airplane. It's just like 1984."

Lol

Our grandparents would look at all this anti-covid whining as the pathetic yelping of spoiled brats.

You can't go to your fave restuarant while people are dying from an unknow virus? OMG, what an outrage, what authoritarianism!

Reminds me of a quote form Owen : When nothing matters, everything matters, as in:  if you don't have anything going on for you in life you whine about everything, and if you're focused and collected then you brush inconvenciences off your shoulder.


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15 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

That really saddens me because it means that we will all be missing out on the more evolved function and greater level of happiness of a solid Green society.

It's your job to create it.


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On 1/21/2022 at 8:54 AM, Knowledge Hoarder said:

Jordan is an inteligent and well articulated guy, despite his obvious bias for the individual's interests. Which also explains his constant totalitarian fearmongering, though in reality we are far from it, even with the most strict Covid restrictions.

I think our response to Covid so far has been more or less justified, however, everyone's gonna get the Covid eventually, so the current situation shouldn't be too prolonged; the damages to the economy are very real, many businesses have crumbled during the last 2 years. Culture also suffers.

 

On 1/21/2022 at 1:29 PM, w4read said:

Here's an interesting math experience for you:

Let's say the government is unsure if they want to prolong a lockdown. And let's say that they do it for a week only in order to reduce the damage and open up as soon as they consider it beneficial. So let's use the US as an example: 

With a population of 330.000.000 you are essentially taking 330.000.000/52= 6.346.153, which is 6,3 million years of quality life from people. So assuming the average person has 40 years left to live or so, this would be 158.653 lives. 

But hey, it's not like their taking away our lives, their just reducing our quality of life a bit. Let's say that the avarage persons life quality is cut in half, by 50%. So then it would be 158.653*50%= 79.326 lives. That is the collective damage just in quality of life not even talking about all the economic and social ramifications outside of that. 

A simple, but illustrating example which also underlines why individual freedom is important, and how we can end up undervaluing it. I mean what does one week matter for each and one of us individually? I mean, you would be selfish if you couldn't handle ONE more week?

   These sound about right to me. I don't know how long the world would last if governments don't consider modifying lock down policies to lesser forms. The economy is gonna take a huge hit if we keep the same, hard lock down policies.

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24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's your job to create it.

Progressives have already tried for many decades since Eugene McGovern and Jimmy Carter in the 1970s to create a much more progressive society and yet they haven't been able to make any real progress at all for our country.

I don't even think that I can realistically create a business that would substantially improve our world because I am not as intellectually gifted as someone like Elon Musk is. 

I also wasn't born a child prodigy or a born a natural genius in anything like Einstein was.

Furthermore, it's extreme unlikely that was not born with the potential to become incredibly charismatic like Obama was.

Even becoming an influential world wide celebrity of some kind would be a 1 in a million chance of that ever happening to me.

Yes, celebrities and legends like Musk, Einstein, Obama, and what have you work extremely hard throughout their entire lives to get to accomplish what they achieved. No doubt about that. However, they also were all genetically gifted in their own unique ways. No amount of hard work can ever change that.

That's why a lot of times, I am like what's the point of even trying to change the world for the better when that's probably an absurd laughable fantasy for someone like me?

Edited by Hardkill

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@Hardkill

9 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Progressives have already tried for many decades since Eugene McGovern and Jimmy Carter in the 1970s to create a much more progressive society and yet they haven't been able to make any real progress at all for our country.

I don't even think that I can realistically create a business that would substantially improve our world because I am not as intellectually gifted as someone like Elon Musk is. 

I also wasn't born a child prodigy or a born a natural genius in anything like Einstein was.

Furthermore, it's extreme unlikely that was not born with the potential to become incredibly charismatic like Obama was.

Even becoming an influential world wide celebrity of some kind would be a 1 in a million chance of that ever happening to me.

Yes, celebrities and legends like Musk, Einstein, Obama, and what have you work extremely hard throughout their entire lives to get to accomplish what they achieved. No doubt about that. However, they also were all genetically gifted in their own unique ways. No amount of hard work can ever change that.

That's why a lot of times, I am like what's the point of even trying to change the world for the better when that's probably an absurd laughable fantasy for someone like me?

   Asymmetrical warfare, that's how you can contribute to the world and be a creator. Don't play fair with well established success giants. It doesn't have to be in anything in the political field, it can be outside of it in some other field.

   The key here, is being a creator and contributing to the world IN YOUR OWN WAY. Don't copy exactly what Elon Musk or Obama or whatever successful person did exactly, because that market is likely too saturated and competitive to be taken advantage of, and it won't work exactly as it did for it's time. Instead, you contribute through your life purpose, through understanding broadly and holistically, then niching down to a specific field that matches with your general purpose, specialized purpose, your field of mastery/skill development, your values, your strengths, your  uniqueness. From that you provide immense value that is extremely difficult to copy. Of course, study what worked for them, but take those, and ask yourself, what would it look like if I combined this with that, while letting yourself be creative? Synthesizing ideas can create more value.

   

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1 minute ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Hardkill

   Asymmetrical warfare, that's how you can contribute to the world and be a creator. Don't play fair with well established success giants. It doesn't have to be in anything in the political field, it can be outside of it in some other field.

   The key here, is being a creator and contributing to the world IN YOUR OWN WAY. Don't copy exactly what Elon Musk or Obama or whatever successful person did exactly, because that market is likely too saturated and competitive to be taken advantage of, and it won't work exactly as it did for it's time. Instead, you contribute through your life purpose, through understanding broadly and holistically, then niching down to a specific field that matches with your general purpose, specialized purpose, your field of mastery/skill development, your values, your strengths, your  uniqueness. From that you provide immense value that is extremely difficult to copy. Of course, study what worked for them, but take those, and ask yourself, what would it look like if I combined this with that, while letting yourself be creative? Synthesizing ideas can create more value.

   

Okay, that makes sense. However, do you think it's possible for each individual to make some kind of unique major contribution to the world?

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45 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Progressives have already tried for many decades since Eugene McGovern and Jimmy Carter in the 1970s to create a much more progressive society and yet they haven't been able to make any real progress at all for our country.

Actually, we've made enormous progress since the 1970s. You just have to see the bigger picture and realize that progress cannot happen at the rate you expect. Changing society is like steering a giant oil tanker. It doesn't turn on a dime.

Quote

I don't even think that I can realistically create a business that would substantially improve our world because I am not as intellectually gifted as someone like Elon Musk is. e.

Of course you can. Don't sell yourself short.

Your business does not have to be anything as big as Elon Musk's. You can help evolve society in small ways.

Actualized.org is a tiny, tiny business by any measure. My work is like pissing in the ocean. Yet here I am doing my work. The reason I am satisfied with it is because I am not at all attached to having society evolve at any particular rate. I don't really care what rate it evolves at. It will evolve at whatever rate it can handle. I am not trying to impose my rate on it. I just enjoy doing my work.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

It's hilarous to me that people whine about Covid restrictions and inconveniences when our grandparents had to put their entires lives on hold to go fight Nazis.

Americans have become spoiled children.

"Oh no! I have to wear a mask on an airplane. It's just like 1984."

Lol

Our grandparents would look at all this anti-covid whining as the pathetic yelping of spoiled brats.

You can't go to your fave restuarant while people are dying from an unknow virus? OMG, what an outrage, what authoritarianism!

It’s extra ironic because it’s usually the Covid denying boomer types who use that line of attack.

”These millennials are such snowflakes getting triggered over everything. I’d love to see them fight in war like their ancestors”

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Individualism has turned into a mind virus that's swept across America.

People have lost touch with the fact that living in a society comes with pretty serious collective responsibilities. Otherwise society disintegrates (as we have been seeing).

Every-man-for-himself is not a society. Nobody really wants to live in that kind of world because it's too brutal.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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45 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Actually, we've made enormous progress since the 1970s. You just have to see the bigger picture and realize that progress cannot happen at the rate you expect. Changing society is like steering a giant oil tanker. It doesn't turn on a dime.

Well, I guess that's somewhat true. During the 80s and early 90s, our country did regress in a lot of ways thanks to Reagan, H.W. Bush, and the Goldwaterite liberatarian movement. Then during the 90s, the country got stabilized but actually didn't really make any permanent progress at all for the country during Clinton's presidency as far as I am concerned. Afterwards, throughout almost the entire 2000s decade, the US regressed in some ways once again under W. Bush. 

However, it was during Obama's presidency that our country finally began to make significant long-term progress for our country including major acknowledgement and support for LGBTQ+ rights, repairing economy and improving it's level of development, Obamacare, taking down Bin Laden, and perhaps a few other things. 

Though since about the late 1970s, America has been progressing at a slower rate than it was before thanks to both the emergence of massive amount of corporate lobbying and the growing political polarization of our country since that decade. 

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