WokeBloke

Non-Duality does not mean there are no differences

37 posts in this topic

Self is non-dual meaning not two. More specifically self is singular. Each self (if there are many) is one self.

Also in this context self refers to awareness.

 

I do not understand why people say that non-duality means that there aren't differences or contrast within reality.

Oneness does not mean everything is the same. It just means everything is a part of one reality. 

 

I think saying there are no differences is equivalent to saying all languages or words are the same.

 

Edited by WokeBloke

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it means whatever you say it means, theres no one to say anything but you

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From the highest level there is not difference between anything

Edited by Thought Art

"Every spark of friendship and love will die without a home...Hear the soldier grown 'We'll go it alone!'" Intervention -Arcade Fire 

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@WokeBloke Non-dual teachings can very, but I'll offer some comments based on the traditional non-dual teachings of Yoga and Vedanta.

38 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

Self is non-dual meaning not two. More specifically self is singular. Each self (if there are many) is one self.

The sanskrit word for non-dual is Advaita, which does literally mean "not two," and it is specifically used for the Self, or Atman.  However, in Advaita Vedanta, there is only one Self.  There are other schools that accepts multiple selves, but they typically don't have only the Self in their cosmology.  For example, in the Sankhya, there are many selves, or Purushas, but there is also a singular Prakriti, often translated as nature.  Therefore, Sanhkya is not considered a non-dual school of thought.  I subscribe to Advaita Vedanta and the non-dual Yoga traditions (the Siddha school specifically), so I will comment from this vantage point.

45 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

Also in this context self refers to awareness.

Yes, the Self and awareness (or consciousness) are synonymous.

47 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

I do not understand why people say that non-duality means that there aren't differences or contrast within reality.

Oneness does not mean everything is the same. It just means everything is a part of one reality. 

In Vedanta, there is only the Self, but it allows for distinctions.  Look around your room and identify a few objects.  How many did you see?  The correct answer is one :-D  All you ever see is one thing...light.  Now think of dream you've experienced.  Didn't it contain a myriad of people, places, and things?  However, all of that was only one thing, the mind.  Here is one last example.  When you look into a mirror there many objects in the reflection, but the mirror is one alone.  In this way, there is only ever one Self that projects a diversity of experiences.

There is one more point to be made here.  All of those distinctions are not real.  By real I mean unchanging or enduring.  There is only apparent multiplicity; it is not reality.  Reality is one, changeless whole, and that you are.

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1 hour ago, Shambhu said:

@WokeBloke Non-dual teachings can very, but I'll offer some comments based on the traditional non-dual teachings of Yoga and Vedanta.

The sanskrit word for non-dual is Advaita, which does literally mean "not two," and it is specifically used for the Self, or Atman.  However, in Advaita Vedanta, there is only one Self.  There are other schools that accepts multiple selves, but they typically don't have only the Self in their cosmology.  For example, in the Sankhya, there are many selves, or Purushas, but there is also a singular Prakriti, often translated as nature.  Therefore, Sanhkya is not considered a non-dual school of thought.  I subscribe to Advaita Vedanta and the non-dual Yoga traditions (the Siddha school specifically), so I will comment from this vantage point.

Yes, the Self and awareness (or consciousness) are synonymous.

In Vedanta, there is only the Self, but it allows for distinctions.  Look around your room and identify a few objects.  How many did you see?  The correct answer is one :-D  All you ever see is one thing...light.  Now think of dream you've experienced.  Didn't it contain a myriad of people, places, and things?  However, all of that was only one thing, the mind.  Here is one last example.  When you look into a mirror there many objects in the reflection, but the mirror is one alone.  In this way, there is only ever one Self that projects a diversity of experiences.

There is one more point to be made here.  All of those distinctions are not real.  By real I mean unchanging or enduring.  There is only apparent multiplicity; it is not reality.  Reality is one, changeless whole, and that you are.

Are light, sound, sensation, and thought different or the same in your view?

Just because the differences are impermanent does not make them unreal in my opinion. Your post and my post are different. The diversity of experience is an aspect of reality and no less real then the awareness of it albeit impermanent. Your changing and multifaceted experience is your reality is it not?

 

Or I could say there is one creator and many creations.

 

 

Edited by WokeBloke

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1 hour ago, Thought Art said:

From the highest level there is not difference between anything

I fundamentally disagree.

A computer is not a banana and will never be a banana.

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1 hour ago, WokeBloke said:

Are light, sound, sensation, and thought different or the same in your view?

@WokeBloke  When you dream at night, are the lights, sounds, and sensations all mind or are they all different from mind?

1 hour ago, WokeBloke said:

Just because the differences are impermanent does not make them unreal in my opinion. Your post and my post are different. The diversity of experience is an aspect of reality and no less real then the awareness of it albeit impermanent. Your changing and multifaceted experience is your reality is it not?

There is relatively real and absolutely real.  Anything that changes is relatively real.  Think of an ice sculpture of a swan.  What is more true, that it is water or that it is a swan?  It is more true that it is water since it was water before it was a sculpture, while it was a sculpture, and after it was a sculpture.  The more enduring truth is granted greater value.  That which never changes is the absolute truth or reality.

1 hour ago, WokeBloke said:

Or I could say there is one creator and many creations.

Imagine the creator before creation.  What would he create from except himself?

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2 hours ago, WokeBloke said:

I fundamentally disagree.

A computer is not a banana and will never be a banana.

A computer and a banana are different, yet they’re the same truth. There are apparent differences, there’s just no ultimate reality to it. There’s no separation. Opposites are the same truth and only appear in duality. Nothing is real = it’s all absolutely real.

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You're way too stuck on words, my man.

Slogans like "all is one" and "all difference is illusion" point to a transcendental truth that you won't grasp by thinking and nitpicking about ontological definitions. Sorry to break it to you.

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@Shambhu

I would say they are a creation of my mind but it seems my mind is capable of creating many different things. Or I could say all of my dreams are different.

Personally I don't subscribe to the unchanging reality idea. I admit I could be completely wrong but it seems to me reality is changing and deathless as opposed to unchanging. At the very least it is both changing and unchanging simultaneously.

And I agree the creator can only create from itself but the creator is capable of creating differences. The only thing the creator can't create is another creator.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

You're way too stuck on words, my man.

Slogans like "all is one" and "all difference is illusion" point to a transcendental truth that you won't grasp by thinking and nitpicking about ontological definitions. Sorry to break it to you.

So you think a banana and a house are the same thing?

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9 minutes ago, The0Self said:

A computer and a banana are different, yet they’re the same truth. There are apparent differences, there’s just no ultimate reality to it. There’s no separation. Opposites are the same truth and only appear in duality. Nothing is real = it’s all absolutely real.

There's no separation doesn't equate to there being no differences. One could say in reality there is change and there are differences. The proof is that experience contains innumerable differences and is always changing. Duality is in oneness.

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5 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

So you think a banana and a house are the same thing?

Sigh... well, I tried.

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1 minute ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Sigh... well, I tried.

What's your answer?

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22 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

You're way too stuck on words, my man.

Slogans like "all is one" and "all difference is illusion" point to a transcendental truth that you won't grasp by thinking and nitpicking about ontological definitions. Sorry to break it to you.

This is my answer.

Let go of words, let go of ideas, let go of concepts. See what remains.

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@Bazooka Jesus

I just want to know if you think a banana and a house are the same. Then I will drop the words.

 

Edited by WokeBloke

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They're the same in essence, different in appearance.

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4 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

@Bazooka Jesus

I just want to know if you think a banana and a house are the same. 

 

And I want you to realize that my answer doesn't fucking matter. Only Truth matters, and you won't get there by mental masturbation.

Over and out.

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1 hour ago, WokeBloke said:

So you think a banana and a house are the same thing?

Both consciousness. But dropping the words will be the only means of actually getting that. 

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1 hour ago, WokeBloke said:

There's no separation doesn't equate to there being no differences. One could say in reality there is change and there are differences. The proof is that experience contains innumerable differences and is always changing. Duality is in oneness.

👍 however, that there is no separation means that the changing is the unchanging and the difference is the sameness

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