QandC

How deeply can You awaken?

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Recent months have been very healing for me, in many ways, but the greatest aspects of my healing and resolvement of certain inner conflicts have come from my awakening experiences. I recently tried DMT (not 5-meo) and from that I had my biggest awakening yet. I am still a bit puzzled by what defines just a trip and an actual awakening. It seems like psychedelics takes me for a  journey way beyond what I'm ready for, but there is only like 0.5% left after the trip that "sticks". Whenever I meditate nowadays for example I feel as if I am going back to that void that I call it, where Nothingness is everything, though not as intense as during the trip. So I guess the psychedelics have had some type of permanent effect, but it doesn't resolve my confusion regarding this whole thing or what the end goal might be.

It seems as if I am just scratching the surface though, since my "ego" and identity cannot fully surender to Nothing. The best way I can describe it is that I have experienced God but still separate from me and the thoughts that I hear. For me the thought of Me and Everything are separate. Still Everything feels so complete. It's like watching a screen that contains everything you could imagine, but there is still the observer. It's "together" but still not the same. 

Even though the thoughts have had less of a significance I still have the belief of who "I" am in the present moment. I do not know how to go past this, even if it seems like my awakenings are getting "deeper" since it makes more sense. It feels like I am enjoying just observing Truth, but I cannot be It.

But I wonder, how far/deep can you actually awaken? What is the ultimate level, does it even exist? My confusion comes mostly from listening to so many different teachers; some say there is only one awakening, and then life goes on as a sort of Buddha-hood, some claim infinite awakenings, some claim infinite awakenings as being one ultimate... I feel like all these ideas I have are really dragging me down. The theoretical foundation has helped me a lot but my fear is that the infinite awakenings actually have no end and I'll just end up chasing my own tail for some ultimate realization, like the last of the last. But I guess that might just be another duality. Still it feels like my deeper awakenings are not really 'deep', it's not even the right words, it's just that a vail is lifted, constantly, like "How f^cking clear can it become?!"

Is there any mindset that could help me, or should I just keep going and only trust my own discoveries? Because as it seems now, my allowing the ego to surrender would be the ultimate, merging into Love. Still, I'm thinking that it might just be the start, and that would scare me even more since I can't even accept letting go of ME first.

Hope I made some sense.

Edited by QandC

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Awakening is the beginning of the end of the ego. Enlightenment is its destruction, due to the dissolving of all apparent boundaries. As humans, we're in a bit of a quandary. We have the capacity to realize our ultimate nature as Consciousness, but we are still attached by our desires within the dream. Awakening isn't some epiphany that instantly dissolves all of our desires. It simply shows you what is ultimately real. It is then up to you, as Consciousness, to actualize it. It scares the ego to death, which is what it is intended to do.

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38 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Awakening is the beginning of the end of the ego. Enlightenment is its destruction, due to the dissolving of all apparent boundaries. As humans, we're in a bit of a quandary. We have the capacity to realize our ultimate nature as Consciousness, but we are still attached by our desires within the dream. Awakening isn't some epiphany that instantly dissolves all of our desires. It simply shows you what is ultimately real. It is then up to you, as Consciousness, to actualize it. It scares the ego to death, which is what it is intended to do.

Right. But still so many claim, including Leo, that there are even deeper awakenings that goes further in the sense of "understanding". So you can basically sit and understand Truth infinitely, and infinite number of times. So is this a bug or a feature, because deeper awakenings makes it seems as if you can constantly connect more to Truth. Or dissolve all the boundaries.

So how can Truth ever be fully realized? I am also speaking from my own experiences where greater realisations can get conquered by the next one and increase my depth of understanding. Perhaps there is no end? And that's what boggles me about infinity, since it is everything but it's also just one thing, the only thing. 

This is mostly mental masturbation but questions like these are what motivates me to actually pursuit Truth. Paradox is also fun.

Edited by QandC

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Experientially to the point you stop existing, not existing to experience from a perspective at all. Whiteout or blackout in extreme psychedelia, coming round some minutes later with no recollection of what took place.

The first or second time I used the Glass Vaporgenie, on the second pull there was something like a huge brief explosion into black and neon, and next thing I know it's some time after. I was still tripping but there's a blank period.

Edited by RMQualtrough

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Connecting to deeper Truth is a spiritual, not a conceptual, realization. Full realization, or enlightenment, occurs when attachments are entirely released and your unconditional nature is embraced. It is not about understanding, but about being.

Life is the dancer. You are the dance…Being is the dancer. Human is the dance.

- Eckhart Tolle

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Can you hold the paradox that exactly where you are right now shares the same existential quality as whatever ultimate awakening you achieve in this lifetime via psychedelics of some other spiritual practice?

Can you seek deeper and deeper awakenings without the need for deeper and deeper awakenings? Can you seek deeper and deeper Awakenings with deeper and deeper understandings while understanding that these are no more deep, valuable, or special than exactly where you are?

It is truly a paradox, one that I don't see anyone addressing directly or appropriately, including Leo and nevermind the majority of spiritual teahcers. That this moment IS IT, but this doesn’t dismiss the path of increasing consciousness.

The thing is, you’re right - it’s an infinite rabbit hole of possible depth. There is no end. So how do you go forward?
 

You keep going home until your dying breath, all the while knowing you’re ultimately going nowhere at all. Hold this paradox, apply this paradox in practice, and an understanding beyond the capabilities of mind to understand or properly articulate will arise. 

Edited by Consilience

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8 hours ago, QandC said:

Is there any mindset that could help me, or should I just keep going and only trust my own discoveries?

It would be very convenient if someone could map out the answers for you .. but the bleak aspect of awakening is that no one can validate it for you. It's beyond subjective, and you'll need to deeply trust yourself in this process.

Be weary of people who come off as having all of the spiritual answers, and those who force some way of being down your throat.

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9 minutes ago, QandC said:

I got your point.

Are you sure? Not trying to be cute. What I tried communicating is extremely nuanced with extremely subtle ramifications. 

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@Consilience I understood it as having to embrace paradox in order to resolve the type of questions I ask. Because my questions desire an explanation of what I would consider logical. But logic is obviously not the best tool if you want to awaken haha.

And then actually fully embracing it (in an embodied way) is the difficult part

Edited by QandC

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Understanding has no end but it has a purpose that can be achieved. The purpose is faith. Faith is what makes you gather the will to be dissolved in the absolute and actually do it.

In that sense, one may need many deep awakenings and someone else may need only a vague glimpse.

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Do a month of 5-MeO and you'll see how deep Infinity goes ;)

You'll never know it's depth from any sober state. Which is why all the sober teachings are so weak. Sober humans are not really awake, they are playing spiritual games.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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@Leo Gura

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Do a month of 5-MeO and you'll see how deep Infinity goes ;)

You'll never know it's depth from any sober state. Which is why all the sober teachings are so weak. Sober humans are not really awake, they are playing spiritual games.

But...Matt Kahn :o 

He doesn't do psychedelics from what I've heard? But also he isn't so much into infinity.

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No one exists but you. And you... are only a thought. Alone in empty eternity. It’s so obvious it’s impossible to not see... Unless... you imagine a space-time universe that you traverse with an emotional system and an ego to keep the dream meaningful, and you imagine that things can begin and end. When that illusion drops, after a long and painstaking journey, there is simply everything; ALL there is, for no one. Simplicity. Anything else is a dream.

Edited by The0Self

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1 minute ago, The0Self said:

No one exists but you. And you... are only a thought. Alone in empty eternity. It’s so obvious it’s impossible to not see... Unless... you imagine a space-time universe that you traverse with an emotional system and an ego to keep the dream meaningful, and you imagine that things can begin and end. When that illusion drops, after a long and painstaking journey, there is simply everything; ALL there is, for no one. Simplicity. Anything else is a dream.

you are not a thought. you are the thought creator. 

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18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Do a month of 5-MeO and you'll see how deep Infinity goes ;)

You'll never know it's depth from any sober state. Which is why all the sober teachings are so weak. Sober humans are not really awake, they are playing spiritual games.

Dear Leo,

This is unequivocally incorrect and a downright dangerous viewpoint. If “I” had any respect for you as a teacher, it would be gone.

Love you, but what the actual fuck?!

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37 minutes ago, Myioko said:

But...Matt Kahn :o 

He doesn't do psychedelics from what I've heard? But also he isn't so much into infinity.

I'm not endorsing Leo's view here, but I am skeptical about Matt Khan.

I watched a video where he talked about his sleep apnea, and he dismissed a point that his issues may be related to emotional/spiritual issues. This is a very ignorant statement imo. Spiritual work will directly coincide with better health outcomes, and if you have clear health issues like sleep apnea then there is a cause that the person simply isn't aware of. 

I've had my entire nasal passage cleared out and felt fully cleared breathing on psychidelics, so it's not true that issues like sleep apnea and disturbed breathing are not caused by spiritual/emotional issues. 

Edited by Raptorsin7

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