iceprincess

Unvaccinated Travellers Barred from PLanes & Trains

117 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, vladorion said:

Also, if this is really about preventing people from spreading the virus, then a positive antibody test should be as good as a vaccination certificate.

This. Well the counter argument is that people would do anything to get covid and get it over with and that could be dangerous. I do get that but it's still stupid to have a bunch of vaccines as the only hope and solution. They don't care about your health they care about pushing their vaccines on to you. 

45 minutes ago, rnd said:

Japan's health authority admits there're side effects from some vaccines; doesn't push vaccines onto its citizens and recommends to assess risks(!) and benefits first, if one decides to go ahead

https://www.riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/modern-day-censorship/covid-19-japan-places-myocarditis-warning-on-vaccines-requires-informed-consent/

Compare it to Europe, Canada, US, AU, some other countries wherein people get jabbed like cattle.

If i was living in Japan and this is what the government said to me at least i would consider it. 1 year in jail and heavy fines? Lol. It's so sad that it's funny. At least i'll fight if it comes down to this. 

So they have no proof that it's safe, they force us to do a bunch of them to live normally and you cheer for them because of statistics that you blindly believe that are 100% accurate. 

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13 hours ago, rnd said:

Japan's health authority admits there're side effects from some vaccines; doesn't push vaccines onto its citizens and recommends to assess risks(!) and benefits first, if one decides to go ahead

https://www.riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/modern-day-censorship/covid-19-japan-places-myocarditis-warning-on-vaccines-requires-informed-consent/

Compare it to Europe, Canada, US, AU, some other countries wherein people get jabbed like cattle.

Exactly, ironically Japan is the best country in the world as far as infected and deaths.  They ask people to take it but don't inject people to do things they don't want to... It part of their culture not to inject things onto others because Japanese people avoid conflict and its rude to be direct in their culture.  This is a big reason why people all over the world typically like traveling to Japan and have good impression of the people there.  

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Hopefully omicron takes over (which it probably will) as the dominant strain as its symptoms are incredibly mild, thus building herd immunity combined with vaccine immunity and proper supplementation. Many experts rightfully argue the transmissibility of this strain is not worth stopping, in fact it's downright impossible. Let it rip I say (or in other words accept reality); a permanent lockdown would be the only way to stop it, and that might not even do it. You may as well kill yourself if you're living such a life indefinitely.

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After omicron there'll, probably, emerge shomicron, gomicron, somicron, tomicron, delta, shmelta, gorelta and so on. 

The solution is, according to mass media of EU, US, CA, AU, their governments and some others as well, and those angry pro-vaxxers (not all but the most angry ones)  and big farma, apparently, to get jabbed every half a year, or even every several months as it's in Greece already, against every possible variant. And this is only against this virus.

The thing is, the natural immunity lasts normally, 1 year I guess, and is stronger because it includes antibodies AND T-cell memory;

whereas the immunity from these vaccines lasts short periods of time and doesn't include T-cell immunity, but only antibodies, and the lattter  even don't generated in all the cases.

I fugure that after several vaccines and boosters the immune system of a person will say "I no longer am capable to generate protection by myself. Give me a vaccine". And such person has gotten himself on the hook.

Edited by rnd

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On 12/13/2021 at 8:43 AM, Tanz said:

Exactly, ironically Japan is the best country in the world as far as infected and deaths.  They ask people to take it but don't inject people to do things they don't want to... It part of their culture not to inject things onto others because Japanese people avoid conflict and its rude to be direct in their culture.  This is a big reason why people all over the world typically like traveling to Japan and have good impression of the people there.  

Mask wearing is something that's been culturally accepted in Japan long before Covid. 

They're also a much less pathologically individualistic society than a place like the US, where grown men and women have been throwing temper tantrums in public over having to weak a mask before going in to a store.

The US still has quite a bit of SD-Red in it (as evidenced by the appeal of Trump), which is where a lot of the anti-mask and anti-vaccine sentiment is coming from.

Edited by DocWatts

"The mind is inherently embodied.
Thought is mostly unconscious.
Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical." - George Lakoff

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1 hour ago, rnd said:

I fugure that after several vaccines and boosters the immune system of a person will say "I no longer am capable to generate protection by myself. Give me a vaccine". And such person has gotten himself on the hook.

I’m wondering if the body could end up building resistance in the way it does with antibiotics, so that eventually the vaccine has no effect.  To be honest though I can’t see everyone, even people who are for vaccinations, wanting to take shots every 6 months.  Here in the U.K. people are already complaining that the first 2 shots aren’t enough, people don’t want to take the booster because there will be another new shot to take by next month.. so people are waiting before they take anything else. 
it’s been hard enough to get so many people to get vaccinated in the first place, can’t make people keep taking it especially young and healthy ones…or people who really didn’t want to take it but they did anyway as a moral obligation. It will hopefully just become like a flu shot where those who want to have it can. 

Edited by Pavement

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3 hours ago, rnd said:

After omicron there'll, probably, emerge shomicron, gomicron, somicron, tomicron, delta, shmelta, gorelta and so on. 

The solution is, according to mass media of EU, US, CA, AU, their governments and some others as well, and those angry pro-vaxxers (not all but the most angry ones)  and big farma, apparently, to get jabbed every half a year, or even every several months as it's in Greece already, against every possible variant. And this is only against this virus.

The thing is, the natural immunity lasts normally, 1 year I guess, and is stronger because it includes antibodies AND T-cell memory;

whereas the immunity from these vaccines lasts short periods of time and doesn't include T-cell immunity, but only antibodies, and the lattter  even don't generated in all the cases.

I fugure that after several vaccines and boosters the immune system of a person will say "I no longer am capable to generate protection by myself. Give me a vaccine". And such person has gotten himself on the hook.

Damn!

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Since a few people claimed that  "You will need to get a vaccine every 6 month", I made a bit of research to tell you what current expert think about this question. 

I read this article on healthline (November 30) https://www.healthline.com/health-news/are-we-going-to-need-covid-19-boosters-every-6-months-what-experts-think#Will-boosters-become-an-annual-thing?, where two experts: Dr William Schaffner ("infectious disease expert at Vanderbilt University in Tennessee") and  Dr. Dean A. Blumberg ("chief of pediatric infectious diseases at the University of California") give their opinion.

Both expert say: "it’s too early to tell how frequently boosters may be required. However, a COVID-19 shot may need to occur at some frequency for years into the future." 

Schaffner adds: "Would it be a year, 2 years, 5 years? We don’t know"

Blumberg says: "I would hope that we don’t need a booster every 6 months. We’ll see, maybe it will be yearly or maybe it won’t even need to be that often."

To summarize, I think it is not fair to say that a Covid booster will be needed every 6 month. It is possibility, but the research and knowledge is just not there yet to tell how often it will be need. The interval could likely also be 1 year (same as influenza) or 2 year. 

 

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It's simple guys. You either listen to yourself, experts, some person on the internet. It's your choice. Other people are making choices and now you're getting locked out of society because of your choices. This is normal and has always been the case in surviving as a social specie.

If you don't want to get vaccinated, okay cool. No one is putting a gun to your head. 

but don't complain when you cannot participate in society because you don't want to follow its rules.

Edited by SgtPepper

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34 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

It's simple guys. You either listen to yourself, experts, some person on the internet. It's your choice. Other people are making choices and now you're getting locked out of society because of your choices.

 

well we'll create a new society on a paradise island.

it will be glorious and it will be fun.

then we'll lock you out of our society :P

 

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3 hours ago, SgtPepper said:

If you don't want to get vaccinated, okay cool. No one is putting a gun to your head. 

but don't complain when you cannot participate in society because you don't want to follow its rules

Precisely.

Don't complain about others who are unvaccinated because it's YOU who has underlying heath problems and, thanks to those, c-19 is dangerous for YOU.

For a normal person, who has no serious healh issues, whether it be flue, c19, headache or diarrhea - makes no difference.


---

You're the representative of whole socienty who has the right to decide who can participate in it, who not? Or what? :) No say, no power -- that's what you have. No?
 

Edited by rnd

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@Philipp if the governments listened to health experts, these nonsensical, non-working and stupid  safety measures wouldn't be in place.

Some do listen to them, but most - not (Europe, US, Canada, Australia)

 

I've found that Japan, for instance, can be trusted in this situation. Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, probably, too.

Most of Europe, US.... some others, mostly - not.

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It is truly amazing that there still are so many people on all these forums that talk about being spiritual, that we are just imagined beings, that this reality is not physical at all, that this is just a dream state, "we are all God", this is nothing but nothingness, Love is all you need, etc…….

And yet these very same people run back to there little EGO lives full of Fear, Hate, and Anger if someone doesn’t cooperate in the Mass Collective Madness!  OR, If someone has a different POV.

This Pandemic is not about Pro-vax or Anti Vax, Democrat or Republican etc….

It’s about facing your fears and asking yourself, why are we individually and collectively creating this Pandemic and this Madness?   That’s the Meta question!  

If you truly believe you are Nothingness, Absolute God, that this is just a dream etc.  Then what’s the problem? 

Walk your talk, and stop pointing the finger!

 

Just sharing a few thoughts, ideas, and beliefs!

Edited by TDLH

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I don't.  I'm not that spiritual yet. As such, I even promote fu@@@ng prostitues for fun and pleasure. 

Ahhhaaa. :)

 

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9 hours ago, TDLH said:

If you truly believe you are Nothingness, Absolute God, that this is just a dream etc.  Then what’s the problem? 

Walk your talk, and stop pointing the finger!

 

Just sharing a few thoughts, ideas, and beliefs!

I think they think there are levels to this

on the truest level there is only oneness, god, infinity etc.

but on this level there's a pandemic so gotta wash your hands and not taking the vaccine is bad etc.

 

imo taking the vaccine isn't "non-spiritual" and not taking it isn't either

but causing further division and thinking you're smarter because you got or or didn't get it could be seen as "unspiritual" imo

but who cares

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@PurpleTree

4 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

I think they think there are levels to this

on the truest level there is only oneness, god, infinity etc.

but on this level there's a pandemic so gotta wash your hands and not taking the vaccine is bad etc.

 

imo taking the vaccine isn't "non-spiritual" and not taking it isn't either

but causing further division and thinking you're smarter because you got or or didn't get it could be seen as "unspiritual" imo

but who cares

In the past I would have agreed with you with what you are saying. With that said I would consider what Rudolf Steiner has to say, because as I'm seeing it now, the body is a vehicle/extension of and for the consciousness, it's a perfect design by creator and creation, and when we compromise it, we compromise our capacity for a conscious relationship with the physical reality.

https://paam.wildapricot.org/resources/Pictures/07 RS-Traditional Childhood Illnesses and Vaccines.pdf

 

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5 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

but causing further division and thinking you're smarter because you got or or didn't get it could be seen as "unspiritual" imo

And somehow the anti-vaxxers/unvaccinated hasn't discriminated the pro-vaxxers. The former don't go around screaming "get de-vaxxed", "get unjabbed".  Granted, some unvaccinated do scream some things. However, there haven't been any shops, cafes, entry requirements of a country, or places  where "only anti-vaxxers/unvaccinated are allowed".

Who among the two groups are more like fascists then? Who wants discrimination more?

 

 

Edited by rnd

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1 minute ago, rnd said:

Who among the two groups are more like fascists then? Who wants discrimination more?

you're doing it again :P stop the division bro

both sides have their issues

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23 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

 

well we'll create a new society on a paradise island.

it will be glorious and it will be fun.

then we'll lock you out of our society :P

 

That does sound glorious, but honestly you guys probably wouldn't cause im chill af, and I don't have a hard time following rules ;).

22 hours ago, rnd said:

You're the representative of whole socienty who has the right to decide who can participate in it, who not? Or what? :) No say, no power -- that's what you have. No?
 

I might be misunderstanding you here, but I am or not one person is deciding these mandates, it's a collective choice. I am saying it's a given that individuals have to follow the collective choice because living in a society entails that. In the same way, it's not appropriate to drive 60mph in a school zone. I might not have kids and I might even be careful, but I still don't have the right to do that.

I personally have family members who refuse the vaccines, I still love the heck out of them, hang out with them, and I don't bother them about it because it's not important to our relationship.

so in other words, a healthy person may choose to not vaccinate, and that is fine, but they are living in a society, and there are basic expectations that come with that.

It's also important to recognize that some people's health is not in their control. For example, part of the reason why I do get the vaccine + boosters is because I don't have a spleen. So I take every reasonable precaution I can get when it comes to my health. 

18 hours ago, TDLH said:

 Then what’s the problem? 

The problem is we are suffering! 

Edited by SgtPepper

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