Jiri Kuokkanen

Why would we be conscious after death?

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As far as I understand, many here believe that consciousness / I-am-ness was before we were born and will be after we die. I wonder how that would be the case. It seems viable to me that I was not conscious before I was born and I won't be after I die. At least I don't remember being conscious before I was born. I am not sure what is left of consciousness without perception and I am not sure if there's anything to perceive after death. But, I guess there's no way to know for sure how the truth about this is. It is philosophy and we can only try to imagine.

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Near death and other paranormal experiences suggest the possibility that the apparent form of you perpetuates in some way after death, as a continuation of the dream. Ultimately, whether Consciousness imagines the same or a new form doesn't really matter, does it? Your true identity is always Consciousness, whether or not it appears to be other than it is.

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Because consciousness is not a part or an attribute the human body has but rather the human body is a part of the experience Consciousness is having right now. Currently Consciousness is taking the form of "being a human" who is interacting on a forum. This form Consciousness is taking does not define what Consciousness is, it's just content.

You may look at things and judge whether they are alive or not, conscious or not (rock vs animal) but this is just a category you create and in reality consciousness is one.

Edited by 4201

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Death is the realization of a false identification, that's all there is to it really.

When you die in a dream and jump into another dream, or wake up and identify this dream as more real than the last, is the same exact thing.

It's just identification to an experience, and that identification necessarily creates a duality between itself and everything else, which gives birth to suffering.

But yeah, this is empty philosophy if it isn't realized directly for sure, but don't assume that everyone talk out of their asses about this, maybe it is true, and maybe the only way to know if it is true is to stop doing idle philosophy :D 


God is love

Whoever lives in love lives in God

And God in them

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I don't know for sure either, but I think about it along these lines:

The I-am-ness is something that is completely impersonal right? Impersonal in the sense that it is the only "thing" that is unchanging, while everything that appears in it is constantly changing, appearing and disappearing. It is also the only "thing" that is not distinct from anything else, it doesn't have any boundary that separates itself into "me" and "not me", or "this" and "that".

In this case, wouldn't it be plausible that this sense of being/I-am-ness would be eternal, timeless and everpresent? Since it seems to be the only place anything ever appears in.

I think the idea of some kind of structure or personal identity going onto another life or some place after death is implausible, but that deep I-am-ness/beingness could be transcendent of death in the sense that it is already always existing everywhere and cannot even conceive of death, since death always requires a limited identity that has seemingly differentiated itself from that beingness into something seemingly separate.

No boundaries = No death

Edited by TheAlchemist

Dearly beloved! Let us go toward Union. And if we find the road. That leads to separation,

We will destroy separation.

 

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9 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Near death and other paranormal experiences suggest the possibility that the apparent form of you perpetuates in some way after death, as a continuation of the dream. Ultimately, whether Consciousness imagines the same or a new form doesn't really matter, does it? Your true identity is always Consciousness, whether or not it appears to be other than it is.

I'm not sure if my interpretation is correct, but basically you mean that someone who had near death experience had perceived themselves in some other form than human? First explanation that came to my mind is that they might just been dreaming about that or such. But sure it is odd if the same environment was seen by many in that sort of state. Anyways, I suppose you mean that you believe that after death, we will just perceive some other reality and this keeps on repeating. I'm not sure why this would be more probable than not being conscious after death, I guess both are a possibility.

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12 minutes ago, 4201 said:

Because consciousness is not a part or an attribute the human body has but rather the human body is a part of the experience Consciousness is having right now. Currently Consciousness is taking the form of "being a human" who is interacting on a forum. This form Consciousness is taking does not define what Consciousness is, it's just content.

You may look at things and judge whether they are alive or not, conscious or not (rock vs animal) but this is just a category you create and in reality consciousness is one.

Is consciousness conscious about many viewpoints at the same time? I am conscious and you are conscious, but I am not conscious about your thoughts and you are not conscious about my thoughts. So is consciousness something other than us because it is conscious about both of our perceptions at the same time? I can't do that at least. Or maybe I just misinterpret what you tried to say.

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Why wouldn't you be conscious after death? After all, who even knows what death is? Assuming that they are not alive to come back and share insights with other humans.

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37 minutes ago, Jiri Kuokkanen said:

 But, I guess there's no way to know for sure how the truth about this is. It is philosophy and we can only try to imagine.

You guess eh?  Notice that here you yourself have subtlty stated that you don't know for sure that you can't know for sure...you might be in for a surprise if you do the spiritual practices and keep an extremely open mind.


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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14 minutes ago, Shin said:

Death is the realization of a false identification, that's all there is to it really.

When you die in a dream and jump into another dream, or wake up and identify this dream as more real than the last, is the same exact thing.

It's just identification to an experience, and that identification necessarily creates a duality between itself and everything else, which gives birth to suffering.

But yeah, this is empty philosophy if it isn't realized directly for sure, but don't assume that everyone talk out of their asses about this, maybe it is true, and maybe the only way to know if it is true is to stop doing idle philosophy :D 

Yeah, well, I agree on the last paragraph. Other than that I don't know why it would be more probable that death is a realization of false identification, than an end to ones consciousness. And I doubt I can ever know, at least during my life. But maybe I'm just wrong.

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@Jiri Kuokkanen

2 minutes ago, Jiri Kuokkanen said:

Yeah, well, I agree on the last paragraph. Other than that I don't know why it would be more probable that death is a realization of false identification, than an end to ones consciousness. And I doubt I can ever know, at least during my life. But maybe I'm just wrong.

Yeah you got it, it's so obvious it seems hidden.

So-called Consciousness is just the body's senses. 

There's no one inside the body experiencing it, that's the illusion of self.

When the body dies the so-called experience of consciousness goes with it.

Don't take my word for it, it's just obvious right.

You will hear all kinds of spiritual mumbo-jumbo here.... most enjoy living in la la land because they fear death.

❤ 


“Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle.

"I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi

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6 minutes ago, Jiri Kuokkanen said:

Yeah, well, I agree on the last paragraph. Other than that I don't know why it would be more probable that death is a realization of false identification, than an end to ones consciousness. And I doubt I can ever know, at least during my life. But maybe I'm just wrong.


Then why talking about this then ?

You don't know and think you'll never know, but you still want opinions ?
Opinions about something you doubt is true, and that you doubt you'll ever know if it's true anyway.

What's the point ?


God is love

Whoever lives in love lives in God

And God in them

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1 hour ago, Jiri Kuokkanen said:

As far as I understand, many here believe that consciousness / I-am-ness was before we were born and will be after we die. I wonder how that would be the case. It seems viable to me that I was not conscious before I was born and I won't be after I die. At least I don't remember being conscious before I was born. I am not sure what is left of consciousness without perception and I am not sure if there's anything to perceive after death.

I, we, my, you & many aren’t conscious, nor understanding, nor born or alive, nor die or experience death. I, we, my, you & many appear & disappear so perfectly and benevolently as ordinary experience in fact, this goes on unnoticed. 

Quote

But, I guess there's no way to know for sure how the truth about this is. It is philosophy and we can only try to imagine.

The outside is as beautiful as the inside. But don’t take a you’s word for it. Just sharing there is in fact a moon. 

23 minutes ago, Jiri Kuokkanen said:

But maybe I'm just wrong.

In my experience, right & wrong are a paradigm transcended with kindness, something even flowers can not do. And in kind, right & wrong appear & disappear as well too. 


MEDITATIONS TOOLS  ActualityOfBeing.com  GUIDANCE SESSIONS

NONDUALITY LOA  My Youtube Channel  THE TRUE NATURE

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23 minutes ago, Jiri Kuokkanen said:

Is consciousness conscious about many viewpoints at the same time? I am conscious and you are conscious, but I am not conscious about your thoughts and you are not conscious about my thoughts. So is consciousness something other than us because it is conscious about both of our perceptions at the same time? I can't do that at least. Or maybe I just misinterpret what you tried to say.

Consciousness has a single viewpoint and it's "this one". The one that is looking at those words right now. There is no other consciousness, Consciousness is not a "thing" attributed to animals but rather, animals, including me, is a thing Consciousness can experience.

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You aren't comprehending the depth of the illusion that the identification with the body-mind is playing on Consciousness. It literally cannot be grasped by the mind. You are viewing the world through the lenses of your character, missing that this character is not even a blip in existence, and that who you really are is every one and every thing in the dream of Consciousness, including Consciousness itself.

There is no death, because You were never born. But you are too identified with the character too "see" that. That is the illusion. You are literally playing now the role of the character you are, forgetting that you are not it. You are the infinite actor the plays all the roles. When you "fall in love" or attach to your adopted self, illusion becomes your reality.

 

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1 hour ago, Jiri Kuokkanen said:

I'm not sure if my interpretation is correct, but basically you mean that someone who had near death experience had perceived themselves in some other form than human? First explanation that came to my mind is that they might just been dreaming about that or such. But sure it is odd if the same environment was seen by many in that sort of state. Anyways, I suppose you mean that you believe that after death, we will just perceive some other reality and this keeps on repeating. I'm not sure why this would be more probable than not being conscious after death, I guess both are a possibility.

There are credible accounts of people who have had a near death experience, where they were separated from their physical body but still had a form identity, and were able to perceive events around them. For example, one woman heard and reported on a conversation between her husband and the doctor down the hallway, which she wouldn't have been able to hear in her normal state.

I don't believe anything about what happens after death of the apparent form, just presenting it as a possibility.

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Because there is no such thing as death and there is only consciousness. You are Consciousness itself, therefore by your very nature, you cannot stop existing. You can just simply notice this. You can only be what you are: Consciousness. Of course. 

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Have you experienced being unconscious? How is such a thing experienced?


 "If you showed a caveman our technology, he would think it was magic. And if you showed a modern man magic, he would think it was technology." - Outlast (video game)

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Thanks for so many answer, I'm afraid I can't answer everything thoroughly. If I'm missing something important, notify me or something. I try to react to some of the statements above.

I can see that I-am-ness seems unchanging in my life experience. I'm still not sure if that holds true after I die or was it true before I was born. But I guess that is a plausible option, even though I doubt we can know for sure.

Yes, what I have stated before in this thread can be interpreted that I don't know for sure that I don't know for sure. I don't quite dare to say that I would be sure about knowing that there would be no way to figure out what happens to consciousness after I die. But still find it highly questionable, because I have no clue what such method is that I could derive this kind of truth from and know it holds true.

Why I talk about this, if I think I'm never able to know the answer? I was just interested why most of you have come to this conclusion. Maybe I'd find some kind of explanation that would change my mind. But I guess it is just too big of a gap in paradigms between my "stage orange" thinking and people in this forum. I've never quite caught the concept of knowing something without rationalizing.

Have I experienced being unconscious? Hmm.. I'd say yes, at least in the "practical" sense. I don't remember anything from how it felt, so maybe it either didn't really feel like anything much or then I just don't remember what I felt.

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20 minutes ago, Jiri Kuokkanen said:

because I have no clue what such method is that I could derive this kind of truth from and know it holds true.

That's what the search for enlightenment is about.

Just keep your mind open to the possibility, no need to believe anyone, just remain open-minded.


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