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Pete-

Are certain forms of BDSM spiritual?

40 posts in this topic

11 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

No. Stop kidding yourself. 

@Javfly33 Can you see its deeply connective such an experience? And also plays with more than just the body. Also the mind. Which makes it bigger for me.

 

Look just found something. Research about medition and BDSM

quote:

But what's clear is that you can find mediative peace anywhere: whether sitting cross-legged in the wintry Himalayan mountains, drinking coffee in your office chair between meetings, or hanging from bondage ropes on the ceiling of a BDSM dungeon.

https://mashable.com/article/bdsm-mindful-sex-meditation-spirituality

 

I know from experience this is true. The silence of mind I get from this is stronger than a three day vipassana retreat.

Edited by Pete-

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3 hours ago, bloomer said:

So you just like a feather on the ballsack is what you're saying?

If a feather is 1 and stilettos are 10 I can take a 4.

 

3 hours ago, bloomer said:

I don't know. I think fetishes are generally a tool of escapism. For example some people are aroused by piss and scat. To normal people that's disgusting. BUT it's actually also disgusting to the scat fetishist because it's that disgust to feces that he or she feels that is eroticised and turned into sexual gratification. BDSM, bondage is a fetish. Why do people like to be bondaged? Because they eroticise feelings of being vulnerable, being exposed or helpless, of completely giving into your sexual partner etc... Go through every fetish that you can think of, cuckoldry and humiliation fetishes eroticise feelings of being inferior, rejected, embarrased, degraded. Fundamentally they turn what would typically be painful experiences into something you can get a sexual thrill from. Exhbitionism = exposure and being judged. Even flip it, being a sadist and domineering is a way to overcome feelings of powerlessness etc...

So my point is that through sexuality we can overcome all these fears, albeit it temporarily in the bedroom. So I don't think it's completely ridiculous to ask if there's some spiritual aspect to that process. Even if it means you like getting your balls stomped.

 

That all makes sense but what’s confusing is the borderline castration type stuff. Why gamble with high odds of ruining yourself? Not trying to kink shame but it sounds stupid to me because you would never be able to enjoy the same thing again.

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@Pete-

Yes, totally related imo. Many identity barriers & attachments are let go and fears ‘faced’ just to explore the experience(s). Ime the sub space is a prior to phenomena, specifically prior to the labeling of things & adding the experiential component of separation, much like two being one sexually speaking. A seeing reality as it is / I am. Expelling such barriers in this way, though experiential, is lasting as it is ‘sober’, or more actual ‘work’ than a passing experience one might attempt to remember & recall a state. Though, one probably be fondly remembering none the less, but from a very difference & lasting ‘place’ than most spiritual ‘experiences’. 


MEDITATIONS TOOLS  ActualityOfBeing.com  GUIDANCE SESSIONS

NONDUALITY LOA  My Youtube Channel  THE TRUE NATURE

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16 hours ago, Nahm said:

Ime the sub space is a prior to phenomena, specifically prior to the labeling of things & adding the experiential component of separation, much like two being one sexually speaking.

A good session as a submissive gets me way faster to a silent mind. Stronger than 3 days vipassana retreat. Maybe even more but I only did 3 days of retreat.

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@Pete- 

Makes sense to me, I can totally see that.  Meditation being less profound of an experience in the lasting change sense, is quite similar in the focus being on other than thoughts.  Or just, being. 


MEDITATIONS TOOLS  ActualityOfBeing.com  GUIDANCE SESSIONS

NONDUALITY LOA  My Youtube Channel  THE TRUE NATURE

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@Pete- It's not the practice, it's the chemicals it releases. BDSM, sex, or porn produces some juicy chemicals that can get very pleasurable states. But it'´s not very conscious to chase those experiences as a way to get to God/Spirit because you become a slave to them.

What meditation is about is to develop your own system to produce that meditative state on your own.  You can find meditative peace also smoking dope off a foil, but again, you are buying the meditative peace. It´s not a wise strategy. The same goes with any other stuff. 

There is nothing special about subspace. Is just you being horny as fuck off some emotional ego wounds that the practice triggers it and then when you cum its over. No, thanks, I prefer create the bliss myself and avoid the post-cum misery.


All an imagination baby --

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@Javfly33 No don't think its about ego wounds.

BDSM has been viewed as evidence of underlying psychopathology, and even today many people believe sadomasochistic feelings and behaviours are the result of childhood trauma, personality deficits, sexual dysfunction and an underdeveloped sense of morality. It’s easy (and lazy) to simply fabricate theories on why people behave differently from what is considered the norm, since actual research requires an investment in time, resources and money.

SM is not correlated with physical abuse, sexual abuse, childhood trauma, symptoms of PTSS, personality disorder, sexual disorder, mood disorder, anxiety disorder, or, well, anything really. We’re as healthy (or ill) as the rest of the population. However, there’s thing that sets kinksters apart: they usually love sex

It appears to be impossible to distinguish kinksters from non-kinksters, except for the fact that kinksters are kinky. Contrary to what early psychologists believed, BDSM is not correlated with any Axis I classifications (depression/trauma/etc), any Axis II classification (personality disorders) or anything negative or pathological at all. Quite the opposite, actually. Some research has shown significantly higher levels of education and income than in the general population, show that kinksters are more involved in community service and a recent study in Tilburg show favourable psychological characteristics in BDSMers.

 

Maybe its about losing senses of some ego, that makes it rewarding. Ego is heavy.

Edited by Pete-

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@Pete- Well, I Will agree that Sex and Humans is a very nuanced thing.

I do believe that there are some people that do BDSM in a "healthy" way. By in my opinion, if BDSM doesnt trigger feelings of narcissism/anger/domination, or feelings of inadequacy/inferiority/shame, then its not real BDSM, its cosplay.

Or, put It in a different way , then that kind of BDSM (the first one) is NOT sex, its merely a massage/session/experience like the one you would get if you go to a person and tlu said you him/her "Ill Pay you 300$ if you put cords around me and hit me". Is that Sex? 

I have liked BDSM and I clearly see that when i engage in It its because my Consciousness is in a very dense-ego based lower frecuency. If you vibrate in high levels of Consciousness, such as Love (well its the highest Lol, But anyway) the thought of dominating or submitting to anybody its seen as totally ridiculous. 

I also sense a sort of ego-wound of trying to be "different " or "superior" of "vainilla people" in progressive bdsm literature.

When in fact is just that simply vainilla people if they do normal sex (not because of regression But because of voluntary decision) its because they vibrate at higher energies and BDSM people vibrate in lower (they need to release / experience shame or anger doing their practices before they can behave like normal people. And thats a bitter pill to bite. Its kinda the same as me that i always had social anxiety and i built this identity of separation and specialness and when i decided to start healing i first had to accept the tough truth that i am not superior or different or special than anybody. I suspect sex-positive progressives that like so much to preach how incredible their BDSM practices are and how lame are people Who just likes vanilla sex are).

 


All an imagination baby --

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1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

Ill Pay you 300$ if you put cords around me and hit me". Is that Sex? 

@Javfly33 doesnt sound interesting to me. Thats not useally how it goes. There is a lot of negotiation and talk going on to make it a good experience. Paying for it is not what would interest me. I want to build up a bond of trust.

No its not a lower frequency. No not a ego wound. The bdsm community faces a lot of discrimination and looks at ways to be confident with what they are. There is nothing wrong with, stop hurting yourself with a sexual preference you wont lose

 

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

By in my opinion, if BDSM doesnt trigger feelings of narcissism/anger/domination, or feelings of inadequacy/inferiority/shame, then its not real BDSM, its cosplay.

No this has nothing to do with BDSM. If you are into BDSM go to newbie forums to learn about healthy bdsm. You need that anyway. Your very negative about BDSM but you dont have the substance to back it up. If your part of the community there are different ways people look after each other to make sure this is healthy.

 

 

And repressing sex will make you even more slave to the inner urges.

Edited by Pete-

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@Pete- Well then what it is bdsm? I know definitions are a bitch but:

b-ondage

d-omination

s-ubmission

m-asochism

If I become conscious enough, I can watch a porn bdsm scene and see that both actors are just enjoying themselves and there hasn't to be any hate or inferiority complex.

But, that is if it's normal bdsm (Man domination - female submissive), which is just an exaggeration of normal sex between man and woman. I see normal bdsm OK. Because its legit to the energy at what the male thrives (leadership, conquership) and the female is comfortable (flowing, allowing, being a passage for the energy to ascend).

But things such as femdom por example, you can't seriously be saying that is healthy. C´mon. Give me any proof that femdom is healthy. 


All an imagination baby --

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2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

normal bdsm (Man domination - female submissive)

Your making a cliche out of BDSM. There are lots of male slave who cant find a female dominatrix. Both genders enjoy losing control, surrender, the thrill etc. And there are lots of people like me who do both roles. I just want te eat whole of the cake:D .

 

The way BDSM is portrayed a lot in the media is not the way it has to be. I dont even wear any leather. And if I am dominant I laugh and smile and say please , while having full control. The stereotypes are just one form some BDSMers play

Edited by Pete-

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Who wants boring sex 9_9

Throw some excitement in there, come on

The debate about what is or isn't spiritual is dumb in the first place

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On 25/11/2021 at 6:22 PM, Pete- said:

I see quite some submissive people talking about experiences of losing their ego. As if they disappear. Also they then come to a place that is highly peaceful and absent of thinking.  They call this subspace.  They describe the peaceful effect of giving themselves over to whatever happens and in the end all will be ok.

Is subspace a spiritual phenomena?

There must be many different states of mind and body that people call subspace. Usually some combination of trance, surrender and endorphin rush. To me, slightly altered states of consciousness are quite common, and what you describe seems quite rare, but totally possible. 

Deep surrender can lead to spiritual experiences. I'd say conscious extasy is a spiritual experience as well. Both can happen in quality sex with no bdsm component, but submission may facilitate surrender well. 

The Czech mystic Eduard Tomáš talked about a quick path and a slow path to spiritual development (I don't know if this is something generally accepted). The quick path in yoga consists of certain breathing exercises that can show you the highest states possible. The slow path is and your daily practices and meditation that help you raise your baseline and slowly get those insights into your daily life. In the end you probably need to walk both. 

I see bdsm-induced altered states as a valid part of the quick path, with some caveats. Like psychedelics. You can use these to advance your practice, or just get lost in the fun of it.

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@bloomer  It's all fine. Everybody has different desires and needs. Most kinky people love vanilla sex too and each kinky person is also quite different.

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@Elisabeth Yes deep surrender, it makes me so content. I think I feel BDSM has something to it , but I don't know yet how to systematically get out of it what is best for me , spiritually. I will be searching for this.

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