Self-actualizing And Relating To Others Who Have Lower Consciousness

[abrakamowse]

I try to think about them not as having "lower" consciousness, but more like someone who is already in the path but is not aware of it, they are just in the beginning.  At some point they will feel their lives has no sense and they will begin the search, but until they don't reach to that point they will continue in the low level of consciousness.

So, I try to give them some ideas trying not to make them noticing as such. Some "hints" and see what happens.

And as Leo says in his video , I try to use them as a mirror to check on my own defects. 

[FindingPeace]

2 hours ago, FCAP said:

To think that someone is a "lower self" compared to you is ok, but to manifest this by avoiding or treat differently shows that maybe you are worse than the people you judge.

Not sure who you're refering to here.

Personally I don't treat less authentic, or lower consciousness (or whatever you want to call it) any differently than I would anyone else. Nor am I specifically avoiding most people. I am, however, expressing an observation about an inevitable rift that occurs when were doing internal work, self-develop and do/become what most people don't do or become. So there is going to be an inherent gap between us and them.

Ok, self analysis: that was a defensive reaction, ego stepping in. Notice and move on..

I agree with what people have said about using the interractions of others as a way to learn more about ourselves and others. Using people as mirrors and also just accepting 'what is' and how people are.

I figured this thread might throw up some controversy or interesting debate. That was the intention. Afterall, there really is no denying that as we self-develop, and those around us don't, there is going to be some dissonance and internal conflict. It's hard to break away from the 'illusions' and bullshit when we are surrounded by people who are trying to drag us back in to it.

The 'crabs in the bucket' analogy comes to mind...

 

[Zephyr]

Advice

- Be more positive: It could have been worst. What can these situations teach me?
- Take Responsibility: Do the things with what you have. Don't blame others. 'things are ought to be'
- Be aware of YOUR own Ego: It's nice that you are aware of others ego. It's also nice that you have knowledge about the ego. But if you want to move a step forward you got to be honest and observe your own ego. Look out for patterns. Analyze what you do and why you do them.
- Practice Tolerance: External and internal tolerance

*don't try to change others. 
*again, don't blame others.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Zephyr

[Gavalanche]

I was struggling with this issue recently, with relation to a girl I have been seeing. I genuinely liked her as a person, so didn't want to stop seeing her, but felt like my time with her was being spent in some quite low consciousness activities.

I didn't want to hurt her, but took the somewhat scary step of being open and honest about perhaps not wanting a serious relationship and that I'll be taking a lot of time to myself, to work on myself. It seemed to go down quite well.

I have learned over the last few months that trying to discuss many personal development topics with people, can result in nothing more than them staring at you like you have ten heads. So, I like the idea that they are where they need to be and will find their way, in time.

[Rito]

What you are experiencing is quite natural for people like us who have started climbing the stairs of this actualization process.I am awestruck too at the change in the dynamics of my relationship with the uninitiated.They notice the change too,and when the ask I explain it to them in as simplest way as possible and show to them how to get started.The more open minded they are the better they deal with it.

But I have developed certain coping strategies to help me better.I have constructed a emotional barrier through which none of their pettiness and trivialities penetrate.I didnt consciously create it,it generated itself after I realized the various tricks my ego plays.Whatever they do now,they cant nourish my ego with their pettiness.As Leo points out,"Modern society is an amusement park for the ego".These people are frolicking in the Disneyland of the ego,while my own ego  is safely locked in a high security prison facility.The two can't connect.

I don't judge them or criticize them though nor do I feel any pity,as pointed out by others it is futile to give help to those who dont want it.

I mostly tell them whatever they want to hear.I don't avoid them,as it is futile.

In extreme situations I hide behind sarcasm because using the f word is considered rude in most social situations 

Edited February 14, 2016 by Rito

[FindingPeace]

Would just like to thank people for contributing to this topic. It has been very insightful. It has also given me some peace of mind that I'm not the only one facing these issues.

I think the keys to this topic are acceptance and to learn. Accepting others for the way they are, and to learn from them by noticing their ways and asking ourselves if we do or don't have the same ways.

We're not superior to others. We're just learning a different approach to life. Yes, other people may cause interference in our development, or cause dissonance or frustration, but that is to be expected. We mustn't judge it or ciriticise it. We need to be patient and understanding. Or, we need to take responsibility and remove ourselves from situations we feel are not conducive to our development. That's our choice.

 

[undeather]

If you cant relate to the masses, you will never be a leader. 

As I got into this whole personal developement stuff some years ago, I fell into the same hole. I ditched my friends, gave up on "low conciousness" activitives and focused on the "important work". Yet what happened was that I ultimately became very, very sad. I ditched people I actually liked as friends, great people - who were just not interested into the same stuff or journey. I actually looked down at those guys, not realizing that I was just harming myself with this kind of behaviour. So finally I came to this point where I didnt know what to believe anymore - On the one side I missed all my old friends and the activities, on the other side the thinker of this thoughts doesnt exist - so what now? 

I followed my heart and got back on the right tracks: 
Returning to my old social circle, doing the personal developement work in private and adding its fruits to my day to day life. I balanced my life out and this is what personally makes me the happiest

[ayokolomo]

I have re written this post a number of times.  Something you wrote touched something within me and I couldnt quite figure it out.  

You view your self development work as more important than the relationships that you have.  Yet for me my family and friends are much more important.  I would rather miss a yoga class and be with a loved one.  I would prefer to help a family member get closer to enlightenment then for me to reach full enlightenment.

It is all a grand, spectactular, illusion and I want to experience it with those I love.

 

[FindingPeace]

On 15/02/2016 at 3:34 PM, ayokolomo said:

You view your self development work as more important than the relationships that you have.  Yet for me my family and friends are much more important.  I would rather miss a yoga class and be with a loved one. 

I've been thinking about this. I can see it from different angles. Whilst it is true that self-development work should not inherently exclude people from our lives, particularly those closest to us, there is also a truth that some people, no matter how close, will actually hinder our progress. I don't mean this in any nasty way. It is mearly a truth. I know people within my own circle who are toxic to the point of providing no value, and infact causing much suffering, in not only my life but that of others. But that is an extreme example.

Personally, my self-development doesn't change how I love or care for people. And for the most part I can continue to relate and interract with less personally-developed people without any problem. My original post was more concerned with specific thinking patterns/neuroses (for example victim mindest, chronic negative thinking, superficial hedonism, anger, judgment, criticism, control and manipulation, and other petty engagements) that those of us that are sef-developing are trying to eliminate. Being around the very things we are trying to improve can be very frustrating. Yet, as I said earlier, we can also use these things as mirrors to our own psychology. Staring at what we don't want to be can help us to not become that very thing.

On 15/02/2016 at 3:34 PM, ayokolomo said:

I would prefer to help a family member get closer to enlightenment then for me to reach full enlightenment.

Unfortunately, in my own experience, I have not met anyone else who is receptive to this. Not even my own family or my own spowse. We can't 'help' people who don't ask for it. I have tried, subtly, but unless people see that there is a reason to 'develop' they won't give it the time of day. Most people have no concern for inner work or looking at their own psychology as they don't see that they need to in the first place. I find it sad and frustrating but something I have to accept.

Here's the thing - spending your life watching someone self-sabotage their own life and happiness just because they are unaware of the neuoses, insecurities, fears and faulty beliefs that are driving them, watching them when you know exactly what inner work they could do to turn their life around to become more satisfied and happy - it's heartbreaking. What's more is that they also tend to create suffering in your own life because they impose their own less-developed psychology, their own suffering, on to you in various ways. I think this is was I was ultimately getting at with my original post.

It creates a conflict of interests that goes both ways - from the point of veiw of the more developed person the lesser-devoped will cause problems. And likewise, it's just as hard for the lesser-developed to relate to the more-developed. This is especially true within close relationships, be it familiy or intimate ones.

Although my initial post was from the perspective of the self-improver, it applies equally to both sides.

 

[Ben Landrail]

It's difficult. I believe you have to first consciously assess the people you're dealing with, their potential for improvement, the path they're on, the things you have in common. If there's a way to avoid talking about or participating in low-consciousness activities with them, you can try that. Overall, it's an intuitive decision. 

With my family, I can usually direct conversations in a way that brings satisfactions to all of us. Since these are people are love, I have to be really patient and creative and find ways to maintain healthy relationships with them. 

But when it comes to my friends, man, that's when it's most painful to admit that they are not who I really want to hang around. Criticism towards others, gossip, laziness, comfort, settling for mediocrity, neurotic preoccupation with menial things and appearance - all that elicits an almost physical aversion in me.

Most of all, meeting with them starts to feel like a waste of time. So my strategy is to look for quality, not quantity. And to do that you have to be proactive.  

[vizual]

High/Low Consciousness is a distinction by the ego. Just because you are familiar with concepts such as "consciousness", "truth" and "enlightenment" does not make you a higher being than beings who are not. 

Every entity is on its own path to truth and every single one of them takes a different route and approach. One approach is not superior to the other. You are holding yourself back by focussing on this distinction. It is your own ego who is craving separation and identification with other people. At our core, every human being is truth, the shape in which that being shows itself is the illusion. If you want to be of "high consciousness" you should focus on that.

[Miicat]

I've dealt with and am still dealing with  some very similar things. Like other people have already mentioned, it is just freaky to see through other people, what we have been and could still be if we chose to. For someone who wraps their identity into self development, it's likely and common to become afraid of falling back into habits that you have worked hard to change around. When people come along and show behaviour that you would dislike acting out yourself, your ego turns it around and instead you feel like the frustration is coming from the other person's behaviour instead of your personal perception and opinion about that behaviour.

If I got it right, you understand how these things work, but are just in the transitioning part where pitfalls are plenty and your current levels of awareness don't correlate with your current habitual behaviour patterns.

It's indeed easy to fall into the endless spiral of ego traps, but the more committed you are to working on understanding the root causes of your usual habits and responses, then eventually unlearning them and replacing them with more constructive (long term) ways and behaviour, the faster you'll be able to come to a close and move forward in all these different phases and stages in self development work.

Point is, you're moving forward regardless and you keep discovering more about everything that's really going on internally.

[Ajax]

@FindingPeace  Have you considered the possibility that it is you yourself that is suffering from low consciousness?

People are like diamonds... multi-faceted...  Thus a truly actualized person are polished on all sides and thus shine brightly. If you have trouble relating to others, it is because certain facets are highly refined and others have dulled. A refined being should be able to relate fabulously well with just about anyone. Your posts proves you need improvement on this area especially on the subject of communication.

 

I know this because I have always been a recluse and the more I learn about life and people... I remain a bit of a recluse but I can transform into a social butterfly almost instantaneously.

I try to enter any encounter with a person as a wonderful opportunity to discover a hidden gem about people or life in general. For example, you can take these "useless" conversation and learn about or practice charisma. Leo's latest video was about the traits of success and charisma and social skills is a fantastic way to manipulate (influence) people.

In short, you are taking yourself and life much too seriously. After all, you and your work, is nothing!

Edited February 17, 2016 by d1ajax

[ayokolomo]

@FindingPeace thank you for that ibcredibly detailed response.

You're right there are many times when the relatiobship has to end because the other persons behaivor is too toxic.  When my son was born two very close friends were essentially elininated from my life.  What is that breaking point is different for everyone.

Also I have to apologise as I was projecting alot of my own issues on to your original post.  One of my recent realizations is that I have become too judgemental in my thoughts:"well I meditate 30 minutes a day so obviously I am further along in the quest for truth."  

Most people arent interested growing consciously they would prefer to allow it to happen unconsciously.  So the first part of my growth was to try to nudge them by using their language.  So for my mother I often say "Jesus loves you"  

This helped some, but I started to question whether I was right in what I was helping them to become.  Higher and lower are such subjective terms, I began questioning their definitions.  it may be that I am feeling better about myself, but by what measure am I judging that this behavior is "better" than another? 

We can look at "obvious" destructive behaviors like excessive drinking.  Yet Alan Watts, who many on this board would consider to be enlightend, was a raging alcoholic.  So this person that we are trying to become through our work, is that really better?  

If it isnt objectively better then hiw can I pass judgement on others?  Perhaps this work that I am doing is just as illusory as their.behavior?

[Naviy]

Tried to talk with my friend about enlightenment and awareness today. Damn, that was a mistake...

[Hengame]

@FindingPeace I am totally agree with you that we should be honest in this community to help each other and get advantage of others experiences if we are not honest how could we trust each other.

[Hengame]

@FindingPeace I have the same problem,as I started to follow Leo' advise and go deeper to self conscious and self Actualization, specially my sister says several times that I am changed and I am not the person as I used to be but it is not matter to me I feel better and I do not explain more in deep because people around me they do not understand me deeply at all. 

[FindingPeace]

My final thoughts on this topic are this - one of the key focusses to personal development is removing 'negative psychology'. Leo has talked a lot about this in older videos. What I mean by this is chronic patterns of negative thinking, criticism, judgment, victim mentality as well as other behaviours such as lack of taking responsibility and controlling and manipulating people.

So to summarise what I mean by 'lower-consciousness', I am talking about people who bring to you and impose on you these very behaviours and thinking patterns that we are trying to develop out of.

There is always going to be an incongruence between people with 'negative- psychology and thouse with 'positive' psychology. This is the heart of the issue I was trying to discuss in this thread.

 

I want to thank everyone for contributing to this thread. There have been some very interesting responses to my original post.

I always knew this topic would be a controversial one, but that was the point really. Ultimately, as we develop ourselves we should, hopefully, become more open and honest about real-life issues and less defensive or egoic about them.

I see this forum as a safe-haven for sharing our insights, feelings and experiences as we journey through self-development, however contentious these subjects are.

Edited February 21, 2016 by FindingPeace
for clarity

[MountainJakeWilson]

On 2/12/2016 at 11:02 AM, Anicko said:

I disagree, you can remain neutral to anything if you are free of any beliefs or judgment about it. 

Like watching the drama of a preying mantis catch and eat a wasp could be seen as beautiful, tragic, or it just is happening right now because that's the way it is, no emotional attachment, although some judgement as to why it's happening, etc...

I've only read the first page of this thread so far, but as the first thread on this website I have read... I am astonished at how much I can relate to all of the things said. It's like there exists some phenomena within us all that is identifiable and similar between us, we're aware of the illusion and don't tolerate it! Something like that, eh?

[FindingPeace]

I feel these illustrations of crab mentality are appropriate to this topic...