So does the flying spaghetti monster exist or does it not?!

[Federico del pueblo]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

If everything is imaginary, wouldn’t the answer be all of that is included in everything? 

Sure.

But when someone comes to me and says "I know that the moon is hollow and that there are Aliens living inside of it who control everything that's happening on planet earth"

Can we now say that these claims are completely false, completely correct or something else?

[Nahm]

@Federico del pueblo

Again, if everything = imaginary, that would be included too. 

[RMQualtrough]

1 hour ago, Federico del pueblo said:

Sure.

But when someone comes to me and says "I know that the moon is hollow and that there are Aliens living inside of it who control everything that's happening on planet earth"

Can we now say that these claims are completely false, completely correct or something else?

It's false for you and 99.9999% of us, true for the maniac in deep psychosis who actually hallucinates it etc.

[Ry4n]

14 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

I think he means Absolutely, that the only experience happening is the one that appears to be localized from Leo.

Of course I know I do have an inner world, so it is an impassè. I would wonder of course, why others lie about seeing from their eyes etc. If they are literally just NPC type beings. It doesn't appear within my control, so what is deciding that they lie, if only this identity's human perspective mind exists?

“Localised from Leo” would therefore be relative by definition. It’s just egocentrism, not enlightenment. Of course the ground of all experience is the same for all beings, doesn’t negate each have unique contents occurring within it ad Infinitum. 

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Federico del pueblo said:

Sure.

But when someone comes to me and says "I know that the moon is hollow and that there are Aliens living inside of it who control everything that's happening on planet earth"

Can we now say that these claims are completely false, completely correct or something else?

There are different orders of falsehood. Ultimately falsehood is defined relative to self-consistently or lack therefore within your own worldview.

For example, if you launch a Flat Earther into space he will see the Earth is not flat, thereby confronting the lack of self-consistency in his own worldview. He himself will realize the falsehood in an inescapable way.

But there is a deeper possibility for Consciousness at large. It's possible to actually imagine and create a flat earth. But no Flat Earther has that kind of power nor do they have a clue that such a thing is even possible for Consciousness to do. This is a much deeper level of imagination. The Flat Earther's imagination is merely conceptual, whereas Consciousness can imagine physical objects into existence if it wants to. Of course it doesn't want to in this case.

So yes, there are various levels/orders of imagination. Imagination is not merely conceptual. It can also be physical. A human does not have access to the deepest orders of imagination because then you would cease being human.

[Frosty97]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

A human does not have access to the deepest orders of imagination because then you would cease being human.

@Leo Gura So as a non-human yourself, you have access to the deepest orders of imagination?

How far did you go? Could you share some of the instances?

I am open to your socially perceived "crazy things" that you did as a non-human Being.

[RMQualtrough]

8 hours ago, Ry4n said:

“Localised from Leo” would therefore be relative by definition. It’s just egocentrism, not enlightenment. Of course the ground of all experience is the same for all beings, doesn’t negate each have unique contents occurring within it ad Infinitum. 

Basically all phrases have two meanings and how people choose to take the term can dramatically alter what is being said.

I think Leo means that there is no contents of mind anywhere except what he knows. Monistic solipsism.

In other words, he can't see your computer right now in his experience so he doesn't believe you are seeing it either. He thinks you're an NPC basically, I think.

Otherwise in non-monistic Solipsism the question as to how multiple views happen concurrently is very valid. Probably worth a video IMO on how it actually functions. As most mysticism is focused on direct experience only, and in my direct experience I can only verify what I am experiencing from this apparent point of view.

[Ry4n]

25 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

In other words, he can't see your computer right now in his experience so he doesn't believe you are seeing it either. He thinks you're an NPC basically, I think.

LOL

[Federico del pueblo]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But there is a deeper possibility for Consciousness at large. It's possible to actually imagine and create a flat earth. But no Flat Earther has that kind of power nor do they have a clue that such a thing is even possible for Consciousness to do. This is a much deeper level of imagination.

Do you think it's possible for a human to enter a state of mind where he could actually manifest something "material" or attract it in law of attraction style, just by imagination?

I know you said when someone is in full on God consciousness it wouldn't occur to "him" anymore to manifest something material, like a million dollars, though maybe it's possible to reach a level of consciousness where you still have some egotistical motivations but are already far beyond normal human consciousness?!

Especially for health purposes this would be amazing.

 

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, Frosty97 said:

@Leo Gura So as a non-human yourself, you have access to the deepest orders of imagination?

I am mostly stuck in a human state. So no.

Quote

How far did you go? Could you share some of the instances?

I am open to your socially perceived "crazy things" that you did as a non-human Being.

You don't get how profound this is. This is not about manipulating reality, it's about realizing that whatever is happening is already Your/God's highest Will.

You don't need to change anything if you fully awaken to yourself as God.

7 hours ago, Federico del pueblo said:

Do you think it's possible for a human to enter a state of mind where he could actually manifest something "material" or attract it in law of attraction style, just by imagination?

Probably, but such a human wouldn't really be human any more.

Quote

I know you said when someone is in full on God consciousness it wouldn't occur to "him" anymore to manifest something material, like a million dollars, though maybe it's possible to reach a level of consciousness where you still have some egotistical motivations but are already far beyond normal human consciousness?!

Especially for health purposes this would be amazing.

Plenty of people have claimed such powers throughout history.

[Regan]

@Federico del pueblo 

the 'flying spaghetti monster' exists as a thought 

'new york city' exists as a thought

[amanen]

There is no such thing as absolutely real reality. There is only imagination.

The experience you have is just imagination that is so vivid that it has literally been materialized. And so you think it is real.

In fact, all experience is just desire that has been manifested in this manner. It is not that it is somehow real.

There is literally nothing that can limit imagination. Obviously, in everyday life, due to the level of your consciousness, you would not have the power to literally materialize the flying spaghetti monster.

But as Leo pointed out, if you took enough LSD, you could actually manifest it if you really desired to. I don't mean as a mere hallucination.

Whether you can manifest something only as a thought/concept, as a private hallucination, or as a 'collective' reality, merely depends upon the degree of power of your consciousness.

 

[Alex_R]

In my experience i think it will be better if you join some religion to ask and perform miracles, after i reach god conciousness on Lsd i feel that the only way to change ego reality is by taping in what you desire using afirmations and that kind of things while beign on Ego form and not the other way.

 

Its something like the opposite of Ego backlash.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Alex_R

[Federico del pueblo]

14 hours ago, amanen said:

But as Leo pointed out, if you took enough LSD, you could actually manifest it if you really desired to. I don't mean as a mere hallucination.

But if I did this and had a trip sitter, would he also see the spaghetti monster or would only I see it?

I understand that the idea of a "me" and a separate "other" is an imaginary separation, but still we can't deny that there is something like different bubbles of consciousness.

For example you couldn't have known what exactly my next comment was going to be, you didn't have acces to this little bubble of consciousness that is thinking of this very comment. 

Basically: Could the flying spaghetti monster become "material" COLLECTIVE reality if someone was conscious and willing enough to create it?

[Star]

On 23/11/2021 at 4:03 AM, Federico del pueblo said:

 

Do we need two different categories like "imaginary" and "imaginary imaginary"?

 

Yes, that's what I do

imaginary which I think is true- imaginary which I believe it's not true (Like love stories with a happy ending, it only happens in the movies *sigh*)

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Star

[amanen]

7 hours ago, Federico del pueblo said:

But if I did this and had a trip sitter, would he also see the spaghetti monster or would only I see it?

I understand that the idea of a "me" and a separate "other" is an imaginary separation, but still we can't deny that there is something like different bubbles of consciousness.

For example you couldn't have known what exactly my next comment was going to be, you didn't have acces to this little bubble of consciousness that is thinking of this very comment. 

Basically: Could the flying spaghetti monster become "material" COLLECTIVE reality if someone was conscious and willing enough to create it?

As far as I understand reality, with sufficient consciousness, yes you could do this. Consciousness is not separate in the first place, it is just an illusion of separation. If you were to do anything remotely like this, it would completely shatter all of your worldviews, including space/time/distance/memory/notion of other people/etc, and you could probably not be able to lead a human life. What I mean is that at this moment, these limitations do not exist either, and they are as imaginary as anything else.

Don't believe me though, if you are interested in things like this, do your own testing and confirm it for yourself. But as a fair warning, if you ever actually succeed in anything, you will not be able to keep your sanity though. Or you can always rationalize it away later.