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Pickup feels fake and low conscious

217 posts in this topic

@Khr @Knowledge Hoarder lol you guys. It's getting hot here ūüėÄ they will close this thread if you continue.¬†

56 minutes ago, Khr said:

being so condescending, entitled, arrogant, aggressive and unpleasant. Women find men like this completely repulsive. Bitter people are repulsive in general.

But this woman is telling the truth here a little bit that could be healthy thing to look at. Unpleasant as it may sound, I know ūüėĬ†

ūüôŹūüôā

 

 

Edited by Salvijus

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2 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

@Etherial Cat That's not what I was asking.

You seem to be disagreeing with Leo on two different things: his advice and his position. I don't care about his position one bit, it's his personal opinion. But I do care about improving myself. What do you think is wrong with his advice?

The advice and the position he holds are not very distinctive.

My suggestion to Leo was to tone down on necessarily framing things between men and woman as a survival game where love and consciousness is impossible because women are too unconscious. He's just attracting his own self-fulfilling prophecy.

And by focusing on this mindset, he doesn't give women the opportunity for more consciousness and better quality affection, which is a pity. He doesn't believe its possible and we've got the skills for it. Which is a false belief. 

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1 minute ago, Salvijus said:

But this woman is telling the truth here a little bit that could be healthy thing to look at. Unpleasant as it may sound ūüėÄ sorry ūüôŹūüôā

 

I'll take advice from a better source, thank you very much.


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@Knowledge Hoarder but it was more of an observation than critism or advice... 

You're fine. She's exaggerating a little bit because she's venting. But I did pick up a similar vibe from you earlier that she described. A most unpleasant thing to hear probably. We are all retarded in the end so that should comfort you somewhat ūüėĬ† it helps at least for me to come to terms when I do something stupid ūüėĬ†

Don't know why I'm writing all this,

Regards ūüôŹ

Edited by Salvijus

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1 hour ago, Khr said:

being so condescending, entitled, arrogant, aggressive and unpleasant. Women find men like this completely repulsive. Bitter people are repulsive in general. Bitterness and aggression will lead to getting more bitterness and aggression in return. Women cannot be in their feminine when they are around men like this.

Men speak more directly, women indirectly. When men give advice to other men it can hurt women's sensibilities. It is how men communicate with each other, even to the point of insulting each other jokingly, for women looking from the outside in they would think men are stupid for this lol. Now men and women share the same space in discussion forums, gyms etc and men have to police their communication as to not offend (maybe a factor in modern cancel culture as we have become weaker/overly feminised as a society?)

 

 It is a testament to mens empathy and self -restraint that he doesn't speak as freely around women as women do around men. Men forego some of their natural way of being to make women comfortable.  Evolutionarily women needed the approval of the social group to ensure their survival more so than men, they relied on social ties rather than their own muscular strength that men possessed to survive in the wild. For this reason they try not to offend as easily and are more socially savvy. 

 

For men to be strong enough to allow women to be their feminine selves, men need to communicate about truth objectively (even if it hurts feelings) and develop and push society in a better direction. Unfortunately discussion is being diluted and stalled under the banner of 'toxic' 'misogynistic' 'hateful' when its just how men communicate, also known as locker room talk. 

 

Women in their sensitivity appear to be more empathetic and they are, however mans relative insensitivity allows him to be more empathetic in the sense that when you're not easy to offend, you're better equipped to cater to others, when you're self consumed with emotion this is harder to do.  Men and more so women trust their emotions and act mostly on emotion. For an emotional person if it feels right then it is right and although some things don't feel good to hear or believe they may in reality be sound and correct. 

Edited by zazen

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26 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@Knowledge Hoarder but it was more of an observation than critism or advice... 

You're fine. She's exaggerating a little bit because she's venting. But I did pick up a similar vibe from you earlier that she described. A most unpleasant thing to hear probably. We are all retarded in the end so that should comfort you somewhat ūüėĬ† it helps at least for me to come to terms when I do something stupid ūüėĬ†

Don't know why I'm writing all this,

Regards ūüôŹ

If you bite me, I'll bite you back. That's how I work.

However, I do agree that we're all retarded, and this discussion is pointlessūüĎć


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37 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Not sure, well for starters I don't think pick up heals a person from shyness. Pick up can replace shyness with cockiness and arrogance. It teaches you to basicly to be an alpha male and dominate a woman and that sort of stuff. I don't see that as a big improvement honestly. Maybe even a degradation more than improvement. This is unhealthy pickup im talking about here.

Yea, that's unhealthy pickup. I'm talking about healthy pickup which amounts more to learning to socialise with women than trying to dominate them. That's simply learning how to talk to women in a way that is attractive and not repulsive

Quote

For this anxiety of speaking with people to dissapear there are two solutions:

1.You build your self esteem alot and you think you're great, this often can lead to becoming a self-centered asshole

 2. You attain to certain level of harmony and inclusiveness and wholeness in yourself. Than all your interactions become filled with good will and respect for another person. You can’t achieve this quality of having a good will and love towards other by hitting on woman 24/7. It only comes as a consiquence of your spiritual practice. But it's the only real lasting solution that works I think. 

Theoretically you could do both of these from your couch. But I suspect that would not help you that much. Eventually the rubber hits the road and you have to see if you can actually go out and talk to people with out being terrified

Hitting on women 24/7 is perhaps the extreme. Maybe I'm light when it comes to it, but I go out once or twice a week to loud social places, have fun, and make sure I push my comfort zone which usually involves talking to girls. And it's done wonders for my social anxiety, far more than sitting at home for the past 5 years has done. And that time was filled with lots of spiritual work and attempts at inner confidence work which weirdly are pretty much exactly your point 1 and 2. I can say for absolute certainty that they did not work for me personally, at least not on their own while I sat at home on my couch

If you combine point 2 and an element of point 1 with frequent socialisation then that would be a good combo, but those alone without any practice won't help much I don't think

46 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

To learn the art of relationships no prior experience is needed and there're no techniques that make you better at it. All you have to do is have good will towards another, be honest, be self-aware and concious, don't be manipulative and self-centered and that's it. But for this you need consciouness work not pick up experience. Pick up experience will only give you confidence. What good is confidence if you're a self-centered asshole? It's better to stay shy in this case.

I sort of agree. A good relationship should feel natural and like 'things just work' between you.

But, you're missing the key reason pickup exists in the first place: lots of men cannot just 'get into a relationship' even if they would make great partners when they're in one. This is because they can't attract a girl in the first place. Can you see how that is a huge problem from a guys perspective? It isn't one you have to deal with that much as a girl which is perhaps why some women here don't get why pickup/socialisation practice type stuff is so popular among guys

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I think pick up is freaking awesome. I’ve even learned a lot about myself through it. I feel flattered when a man asks for my number. Any interaction with a man is another opportunity to deepen my relationship with my feminine essence. 


"You Create Magic" 

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8 minutes ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

If you bite me, I'll bite you back. That's how I work

Lol, fair enough ūüėĬ†

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10 minutes ago, Khr said:

I feel that this is more of a ‚Äúfeeler‚ÄĚ vs ‚Äúthinker‚Ä̬†debate rather than male vs female. Many men do get offended and don‚Äôt get along with ‚Äúanimalistic‚ÄĚ men you‚Äôre describing because they are more sensitive and in touch with their emotional¬†side. That is why the ‚Äúwoke culture‚ÄĚ is¬†appealing to them now compared to¬†the way things were before. Same thing as some women are naturally more logical and ‚Äúthinking‚ÄĚ type, so they probably wouldn‚Äôt get offended either and have more of a just ‚Äúfocus on the business‚ÄĚ kind of attitude.

You can see it on this forum too, how many men actually do agree that many aspects of¬†pickup seems damaging and hurtful. Leo is a ‚Äúthinker‚ÄĚ and his approach and the way he talks will appeal more to ‚Äúthinkers‚ÄĚ and will seem too¬†rough and insensitive to ‚Äúfeelers‚ÄĚ, regardless of the gender.

Thats true, women are more the feeler type and men the thinker type. It's why we often hear women say I feel and men I think in stating their points. Power (in men) devoid of any feeling would be destructive and so men should balance it by being more in touch with feelings, and women more with thinking as to not let emotions cloud thinking. The bias from this forum is that the people on it are a lot more intuitive and conscious so if we go by how the women or men are here we project most men and women are like that ie that women go for low conscious behaviour which Leo mentioned. Of course the women here (on a consciousness forum) will say no, but I think the advice is directed at men dealing with the average out there. 

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2 minutes ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

I think pick up is freaking awesome. I’ve even learned a lot about myself through it. I feel flattered when a man asks for my number. Any interaction with a man is another opportunity to deepen my relationship with my feminine essence. 

pickup is dire to be honest

guy scans venue to seek gal he wants sex with and approaches the one most likely to oblige

his mind is made up before he even speaks to her, his only mission is to have sex with the least trouble in the least time

he doesn't want to know her just bed her

i feel ashamed of the male gender and pity on the female gender, the only winner is biology with the prospect of an addition to the species

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@something_else hmmmm... okey okey. You win. Pickup can help you POTENTIALLY. To improve your.... what? Aaaa, confidence? What else? Can it teach you to be more respectful and inclusive? Aaaa, maybe? Potentially? 

But in the end it's only logical that if you want to learn relationship you have to become a loving, respectful, good will generating person, only then there is a possibility of having a harmonious interaction. Otherwise where there's no love and respect things turn nasty and dark once the sex motive is is fulfilled. And to develop these qualities, you need consciouness work not pick up experience, does that make sense or no? It does make sense to me somehow. 

Also just because you got your anxiety to approach woman dissapear somewhat. That is not a sign that you improved your ability to connect with people and have a harmonious successful relationship, no? Many people have no anxiety to speak to woman but they are still assholes. The point of healthy pickup is to develop your ability to connect with people not to overcome approach anxiety imo. No? I don't know myself even lol. But it seems to make sense so far at least for me. I think we have drifted somewhere into another topic now. 

If we are talking about healthy pickup than landing a few girls is not an achievement it's just ape buiseness. But if learning to connect to people on a deep level is what healthy pickup is all about. I would say it's a simple consiquence of consciouness work. I don't see another option here.. 

ūüôŹ

Edited by Salvijus

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2 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

The advice and the position he holds are not very distinctive.

His advice and position are worlds apart. In fact, they are almost contradictory. On the one hand, he is saying that it's all a survival game, and yet on the other hand, he's not demonizing the game or trying to ignore or bypass it. He's actually being very transparent about this whole thing. He is loving the game and embracing it. And he's being very conscious, ethical, responsible, and respectful towards women with his advice.

Honestly, you just seem to be bothered by his transparency. You want sex and relationships to be viewed in the light of innocence and spontaneity rather than survival and gaming. You don't want the truth to ruin this fantasy for you. But that's not quite how it works for us, men. We don't think of sex and relationships as something that happens spontaneously, or naturally. Even relationships that start from social circles, they all have a gaming component, from initial eye contact, to approaching, to talking, to escalating, to sex. Even the most advanced guys perceive dating as a game. But of course they don't tell you that. They're good at hiding that from you, they're smooth, which is precisely what makes them advanced. I am a guy, and I have countless guy friends. I have incel friends and player friends, and others somewhere in the middle. All of them perceive dating similarly. This is reality. It's not an ideology or a way of framing things. When I told my ex that, she told me that she felt afraid and shocked because she didn't imagine men to be that way. But, well, we are. That's the brutal truth. There's no such thing as innocent mating. Innocence is just something women imagine because they're on the receiving end. Try imagining what it might be like to be on the other end.

Edited by Gesundheit2

The winds follow the will of our sails.

We are the ships and all the seas.

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@Flowerfaeiry

1 hour ago, Flowerfaeiry said:

I think pick up is freaking awesome. I’ve even learned a lot about myself through it. I feel flattered when a man asks for my number. Any interaction with a man is another opportunity to deepen my relationship with my feminine essence. 

:x


The winds follow the will of our sails.

We are the ships and all the seas.

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4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can say whatever you want but most women are attracted to low consciousness behavior. Which is why the most low consciousness guys get laid the most and the most conscious guys get laid the least.

um, that's not true at all... I have seen little to no correlation between the two.

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1 hour ago, gettoefl said:

pickup is dire to be honest

guy scans venue to seek gal he wants sex with and approaches the one most likely to oblige

his mind is made up before he even speaks to her, his only mission is to have sex with the least trouble in the least time

he doesn't want to know her just bed her

i feel ashamed of the male gender and pity on the female gender, the only winner is biology with the prospect of an addition to the species

When we put it down to purely biology terms its very cold and naturally we do feel shame/guilt for our animal nature, for something higher in us a humans says we are more than just animals. Men and women aren't good or bad but both good and bad. The potential for devilry or divinity is in both. 

 

*David Attenborough voice * 

The opposite case could be made for women who dress up and accentuate their beauty via make up, heels pushing their hips out, and bras their breasts up, seated at the bar as if a spider web waiting for a fly (guy) to get caught in her feminine charms and to give mind blowing sex to lock the man into a commitment. To meet her end goal of motherhood fulfilling her deepest maternal desire, and to subjugate the male into providing and provisioning to her and child for life, even when she can turn the tap of sex off with no repercussion or threat to her survival lol.

 

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8 minutes ago, zazen said:

When we put it down to purely biology terms its very cold and naturally we do feel shame/guilt for our animal nature, for something higher in us a humans says we are more than just animals. Men and women aren't good or bad but both good and bad. The potential for devilry or divinity is in both. 

 

*David Attenborough voice * 

The opposite case could be made for women who dress up and accentuate their beauty via make up, heels pushing their hips out, and bras their breasts up, seated at the bar as if a spider web waiting for a fly (guy) to get caught in her feminine charms and to give mind blowing sex to lock the man into a commitment. To meet her end goal of motherhood fulfilling her deepest maternal desire, and to subjugate the male into providing and provisioning to her and child for life, even when she can turn the tap of sex off with no repercussion or threat to her survival lol.

 

it is hardwired into our genes

and on the whole as hopeless slaves to it as we are both genders love the game, men looking to razzle and women looking to dazzle

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5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:
5 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

It sounds awfully like you're saying that women don't have the ability to be attracted to consciousness and will only fall for survival capital?

Of course.

Sex is survival.

Not just women, men too. Your genitals don't care about consciousness.

 

My experience is very different actually. Women seem to smell consciousness off guys without even having to try. 

 

In fact many times consciousness/ survival capital are inseparable because consciousness makes you much better at surviving.

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I feel to add a bit on the "improving social skills by interacting with random people" thing. I don't think it can work like that. Why. Because your interactions are a consiquence of how you are inside and you level of self-awareness. To that extent you can jam and dance with relationships.

Relationships are like jamming really. In music if you want to learn improv, you don't do improv 24/7. You cultivate your music sensitivity, your sense of rythm, your ears, and your heart. All these principles will decide how good your music will be. It's the same with social skills. There are no¬†techniques for it, you simply meet and respond to the situation according to your level of awareness. How self-aware you are, how honest, natural, sensitive, empathic you are, that will be the quality of your socializing. A very high quality socializing ends up in union and love and silence. To develop these qualities that make socializing smooth and successful is what consciouness work is all about. Only through consciouness work can people learn socializing. It's when you're disconnected from yourself that you are lost among people and don't know what to say and all that stuff. Because a person is not sufficiently self-aware that's why these problems come. It's like a tone deaf person trying to play jazz improv. Obviously he will feel lost and clueless what to play. Everything he plays will sound out of tune and out of context, that's exacly what happens when people who have no self-awareness trying to socialize with people ūüėÄ 1000 attempts phylosophy will not work. You need to work on the principles.

ūüôŹ

 

Edited by Salvijus

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People say a lot about stuff, but don't do nothing.


Love life and your Health, INFJ Visionary

 

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