Nothing much has changed

[Javfly33]

@Moksha What you mean my true nature, you mean awareness?

See i just think we Dont communicate well. I think we have discovered certain stuff. We are just not understanding correctly. 

When i Talk about understanding, i Dont mean understanding awareness or Infinity. 

I literally mean understanding for example why i had precisely the Life i had (as the ego). Why that car is blue and not Green. Why the Earth was created with water and Land. Why i was born in x city. Why Gravity exists.

Why why why why.

See What i Dont agree is in that just because awareness or Spirit IS behind language and concepts, then that means that the material dream, is just useless and doesnt Mean anything.

Cant you see that the material dream IS also part of Spirit?

That car you seeing right now when you walk down the street, is not a dumb cold object outside of yourself (Spirit). Is fucking Spirit too.

If you Dont understand why that car is there, thats fine. But Dont downplay It saying Spirit is behind concepts.

Because doing that Its begging the question. I am not asking about spirit. Im asking about the car!

PD: and the car is Spirit.

[Moksha]

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Cant you see that the material dream IS also part of Spirit?

Yes. Everything is Consciousness, and Consciousness is everything. Every being in the cosmos is still Consciousness, seeming to be what it is not. The appearance of separation, time, space, and change is not ultimately real.

Why why why why.

The monkey mind will ask this question forever, and never find an answer.

[michaelcycle00]

On 11/13/2021 at 6:34 PM, Moksha said:

The monkey mind will ask this question forever, and never find an answer.

I feel like you still aren’t acknowledging what he’s saying. Can you realize why things are the way they are through Psychedelics? (Since the monkey mind is torn apart whilst on them). 
 

Are we just told the “monkey mind” will never get it because it’s so far out? Perhaps even God doesn’t know why it’s the way it is, because it’s a mystery to itself as some other person wrote in one trip report here. 

Edited November 15, 2021 by michaelcycle00

[Moksha]

15 hours ago, michaelcycle00 said:

I feel like you still aren’t acknowledging what he’s saying. Can you realize why things are the way they are through Psychedelics? (Since the monkey mind is torn apart whilst on them). 

Are we just told the “monkey mind” will never get it because it’s so far out? Perhaps even God doesn’t know why it’s the way it is, because it’s a mystery to itself as some other person wrote in one trip report here. 

I'm acknowledging what he is saying, just pointing out that ultimate truth can only be directly realized. Awakening is entirely non-conceptual. It is beyond the capacity of the human mind to comprehend.

Asking "Why why why why" is counterproductive. You are trying to conceptually understand a truth so profound that it seems paradoxical to the mind. The mind can't accept paradox, and is constantly trying to solve for it. How do time and timeless interact? How is change possible if ultimate reality is changeless? Who is seeking enlightenment, if separation is only an illusion? How does Consciousness appear to be other than it is? Ultimate reality is called a Mystery, because the mind can't understand it. It can only be Self-realized, beyond the mind.

The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao; The name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth. The named is the mother of ten thousand things. Ever desireless, one can see the mystery. Ever desiring, one can see the manifestations. These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gate to all mystery.

- Tao Te Ching

Descartes said, “I think, therefore I am.” If he had stopped thinking for a moment, he would have realized that beyond thought there is a vast realm of Consciousness. Whatever a scientist looks at to solve the mystery of Consciousness is the Consciousness itself. We cannot make ourselves into an object of knowledge; that would be the egoic self. The essence of who you are can never be an object because it is the eternal subject. You cannot find God as an object.

- Eckhart Tolle

The more one studies attempted solutions to problems in politics and economics, in art, philosophy, and religion, the more one has the impression of extremely gifted people wearing out their ingenuity at the impossible and futile task of trying to get the water of life into neat and permanent packages.

Religious ideas are like words--of little use, and often misleading, unless you know the concrete realities to which they refer. The word 'water' is a useful means of communication amongst those who know water. The same is true of the word and the idea called 'God'...The reality which corresponds to 'God' and 'eternal life' is honest, above-board, plain, and open for all to see. But the seeing requires a correction of mind, just as clear vision sometimes requires a correction of the eyes.

Belief clings, but faith lets go...Our minds have been prepared for it by this very collapse of the beliefs in which we have sought security. From a point of view strictly, if strangely, in accord with certain religious traditions, this disappearance of the old rocks and absolutes is no calamity, but rather a blessing. It almost compels us to face reality with open minds, and you can only know God through an open mind just as you can only see the sky through a clear window.

To discover the ultimate Reality of life--the Absolute, the eternal, God--you must cease to try to grasp it in the forms of idols. These idols are not just crude images, such as the mental picture of God as an old gentleman on a golden throne. They are our beliefs, our cherished preconceptions of the truth, which block the unreserved opening of the mind and heart to reality. The legitimate use of images is to express the truth, not to possess it.

'Unless a grain of corn fall into the ground and die, it remains alone. But if it dies, it brings forth much fruit'...What religion calls the vision of God is found in giving up any belief in the idea of God. By the same law of reversed effort, we discover the 'infinite' and the 'absolute,' not by straining to escape from the finite and relative world, but by the most complete acceptance of its limitations. Paradox as it may seem, we likewise find life meaningful only when we have seen that it is without purpose, and know the 'mystery of the universe' only when we are convinced that we know nothing about it at all.

- Alan Watts

[Nahm]

@Javfly33

Just two cents of course, an opinion… but what @Moksha is sharing with you isn’t reductionist. When a teacher experiences cessation so to speak, their interest naturally is helping you awaken, because there is no teacher, or individual there. Never was, but thought makes it so.  When a teacher hasn’t, and is still in the thought attachment / monkey mind “phase”, it’s about their concepts, because they themselves (so to speak) can’t tell the difference. It isn’t personal. You might have a ‘lens’ of it being personal & dualistic, of right & wrong / higher & lower concepts, which to you maybe are not readily seen as concepts, but the way. This would leave you, in an unknowingly indoctrinated sense, in monkey mind always trying to ‘get’ the ‘right’ concepts too. Unknowingly attempting to and orientated to aspire to, monkey mind.  Product of the underlying rollercoaster of comparative dualistic thinking, without recognizing the lens is conjecture in & of itself.

@michaelcycle00

God is perfectly aware of why all is exactly as all is. But God is not the monkey mind leading the monkey mind. I mean, God is of course also that, but as the veil. Psych’s can certainly ‘tear the monkey mind apart’ as you say, and then it of course resumes, and the ‘experience’ is hijacked by the ego (separate self thought activity) resulting in being only further veiled, by the spiritual ego “phase”. Leaving you unknowingly aspiring to, spiritual ego. 

[Javfly33]

On 15/11/2021 at 7:06 AM, michaelcycle00 said:

 

Are we just told the “monkey mind” will never get it because it’s so far out? Perhaps even God doesn’t know why it’s the way it is, because it’s a mystery to itself as some other person wrote in one trip report here. 

Nice ?

[Breakingthewall]

the monkey mind can understand it and it has been explained many times. You are the void, the nothing without limits where everything is possible. As you have no limits, you are, and as you are, you feel towards yourself a love without limits, pure and perfect. as you love yourself unlimitedly, you create infinite possible you to love, because you want to. all these infinities you, each one a universe, occur at the same time, since there is no time and there are no limits. This understandable, yet unimaginable infinity is you ... infinity. for the mind it is terrible, for the emptiness it is nothing, a game. At the end, all is nothing, only a dream. And the answer to any question is: infinity. 

The question is: yes, okay, infinite existing, then, how do I only perceive my parcel, and not the other infinities? ha, because you are now the dream, not the dreamer. this is your infinite and unimaginable power. What I don't understand is: is this dream happening and is it going to end, or is it always happening, or is there only this exact moment? This is the limit of understanding for me since there is no time...how is going to finish something? You are "now" the dream....so "when" is not "now"? But sure many understand this

 the monkey mind, conceptually, can understand  almost everything, even if it cannot imagine. Maybe everything

Edited November 16, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[Javfly33]

22 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

the monkey mind can understand it and it has been explained many times. You are the void, the nothing without limits where everything is possible

@Breakingthewall In the void there´s no understanding.

I´ve been there. 10mg pure 5-meo-dmt through crack pipe. Everything dissappeared.

Yet there was no understanding. 

If the void/God is so good, how it´s so dumb it doesn´t even understand how/why it created the whole universe? 

 

[Breakingthewall]

38 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

the void there´s no understanding.

I´ve been there. 10mg pure 5-meo-dmt through crack pipe. Everything dissappeared.

The void is empty and quite unpleasant, to put it mildly, until you accept it and see that it is potentiality where infinity unfolds. after that 10 mg pipe, another one. in the end the emptiness opens and it is understood. Its you, God