bejapuskas

Asexuality/aromanticism

30 posts in this topic

Hello everyone, 

I just realized that there is a lot of pressure on this forum to behave in sexual and romantic ways. While I do not advocate for repression and denial of one's desires in this sense, I am aware that some people are asexual, aromantic or both, which means they do not experience sexual/romantic attraction in the traditional meaning of the word. (they might still engage in the behaviors in order to please their partners, without attraction, engage in non-sexual kinks etc.) This applies to all genders, usually men tend not to realize they are ace/aro, because of the amount of societal pressure. It tends to be associated more so with females at birth.

I think questioning attraction as a part of one's identity can be great tool to arrive at unique insights. Seeing others behave in sexual/romantic ways without understanding it can help one be more objective and spot the devilry and nonsense in such behaviors. That is why I am asking if anyone here has any interesting inputs. 

I am willing to share experiences of my friend, even though I am quite sexual and romantic myself.

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9 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

Seeing others behave in sexual/romantic ways without understanding it can help one be more objective and spot the devilry and nonsense in such behaviors. 

Would you expand on this part? I doubt I would be able to tell what is and isn’t toxic by simply watching two people be romantic unless there was a very blatant negative reaction in either party.

Edited by Emotionalmosquito
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@Emotionalmosquito  I think it can be related to just seeing how some people are blindly chasing "love" without understanding it, without working on anything else. What you say makes sense. It is easier to spot as someone who does not partake in such stuff, even though asexual and aromantic people can face pressure to be like everyone else and become confused too. 

For example, I used to chase relationships a lot, but my aro ace friend told me "you just desire art", (they are a very creative person themselves) and that really helped me notice my lack of focus on my path. I also got a lot of insights from talking with them about the morality of having kids. Kids have a big carbon footprint and some people have them just because or to "fix their marriage". People who don't take giving birth for granted can spot that more easily, as the culture doesn't seem all rational to them. Like with survival instinct, they can have it, but still be repelled by the activity or indifferent to it.

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Yeah, I see the same thing. We are not really appreciating the whole spectrum of sexuality and intimacy on this forum.

Intimacy and romance is like an ocean of rainbows. I see a lot of people trying to make sense of this beautiful mess, to make it more digestible. I get it, sometimes it's scary to let go of control. But IMO the true Game is going with the flows of it.

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I have experience with being asexual and I have identified as such at one point (it's a long story). 

I have written about this a lot in my journal because I feel like my asexuality has greatly impacted the way I see the nuances of sex even though I no longer identify as asexual. Here are a couple posts that I really recommend checking out for anyone interested: 

 

 


Head empty, no thoughts, just vibes ^_^

https://www.theupwardspiral.blog/

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I lean pretty strongly towards being asexual myself. So some of the broad brush strokes people make about sexuality, specially male, can feel a bit alienating. I try to be mindful that my personal feelings are not reflective of the general consensus and I shouldn't project how I personally feel about it onto others. Though, sometimes it still does leak out.

Though I do believe in trying to be diverse and making sure there is a safe space for everyone. I can only speak for myself though here, but I'm very secure about how I feel with my own sexuality (it's not a response from trauma or anything) and the greater emphasis should be put on those still trying to find themselves or those that struggle making connections with others.

If I was going to go into slight more detail on my views of it. Being this way, again in my opinion, has vastly and I mean vastly allowed me to connect with others and see who they truly are inside. It's also has created more harmony in my current relationship as well. 

Edited by Nos7algiK

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Wow so many responses, thank you for contributing!

@roopepa  I understand what you mean. One question I am trying to answer for myself is - can a gender fluid person with changing sexual orientation sustain a long term relationship with a more static person? I know this is a loaded one, but what do you think?

@Nos7algiK  That is why I created this thread. I am sorry you feel that way. Diversity is amazing for learning and personal growth, as it is a tool for one to face their biases by being exposed to other experiences than those that they experience themselves or are close to in some other way. I remember having this stage of being "accepting of queer people, but not wanting them to show off or to talk about their feelings openly" which is still not really what acceptance means, as almost everything we say here on this subforum is hetero/allosexual-normative. I have a similar experience with questioning myself too, it is like there is this label when you perceive another human that influences your opinion and perception of them, it goes against the idea of being mindful that we talk about so much here to assume gender and never question it. It is very spiritual to question.

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Not too experienced with asexuality, but romance is a social construct, and I've been more "aromantic" lately. This doesn't mean I don't have love for the other, but the way I structure my sexual relationships isn't based off of cultural tropes. 

 

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@Chew211  Would you mind sharing what cultural tropes have you spotted on your path of questioning culture?

@soos_mite_ah  I will get to responding to you later, I am a bit busy these days x)

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10 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

soos_mite_ah  I will get to responding to you later, I am a bit busy these days x)

Oh no you're perfectly fine. I just commented a bank of information for anyone who was interested. I realize it's quite a lot considering on how detailed I can be on my journal posts :D:D:D


Head empty, no thoughts, just vibes ^_^

https://www.theupwardspiral.blog/

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Do any of you guys identify as non-conforming / genderqueer / non-binary, given that your sexuality does not define your gender? Do you think sex and sexuality in general plays a big role in society's assessment of gender roles?

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I think I'm somewhere on the asexual and aromantic spectrum. I am not as sexual as other people. I was very sexual when I was 11-12 years old, but now in my early twenties I don't feel as horny. 


“Many talk like philosophers yet live like fools.” — Proverb

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On 11/14/2021 at 5:54 PM, bejapuskas said:

@Chew211  Would you mind sharing what cultural tropes have you spotted on your path of questioning culture?

@soos_mite_ah

Relationship categories (boyfriend-girlfriend, fuck-buddies, etc), love = exclusivity, the general dynamic of tying oneself down to the other, essentially crippling both parties into some sort of codependency for the sake of security, the necessity of marriage as goal of a sexual relationship (it CAN be a goal, but it doesn't have to implicitly be the case).

People model their relationships off of romcoms, Disney movies, or hook-up culture, and follow the respective implicit rules without even being fully aware of them. 

This is just from the top of my head. 

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@Derek White  That is really interesting, thanks for sharing. Do you think it is because you have better self-esteem now than you used to as well and you don't define your value by sex, or is it not that?

@Chew211  What do you think about focusing on one person for the sake of knowing each other better and also not being spread out for the sake of not only pursuing relationships? I guess you would not need to have multiple committed relationships, im just trying to hear your points, playing the devils advocate here :) Do you have any specific examples of this? I am personally very confused, as in my previous relationships, I felt like I wanted an open relationship, but I did not really act on it once it was open... Maybe just some sort of OCD and overthinking.

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11 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

Do any of you guys identify as non-conforming / genderqueer / non-binary, given that your sexuality does not define your gender? Do you think sex and sexuality in general plays a big role in society's assessment of gender roles?

100% 

While I'm not gender non-conforming or non-binary, I have a few friends who are and who have shared their experiences with me. The common thread I get is that they tend to like what they like and they express themselves according to how masculine or feminine they feel that day. They find having labels for sexuality (i.e. gay, straight, bi) can be limiting and box people in from really exploring what they do and don't like in some cases. And finally, masculinity and femininity is seen as gender neutral so even if they feel feminine one day, they might still be more attracted to another similarly feminine partner of the same or opposite assigned gender. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that especially compared to a lot of people on this forum, they don't over think attraction and try to play up a type of polarity. They just like what they like and that's that. 

Also, just in general, a lot of LGBTQ people tend to make fun of straight people and their binaries because it can manifest in some really cringy ways. Heterofatalism is a whole topic of it's own and while I did write a whole post about it that I believe I linked above, I thought I'd still share a relevant portion: 

On 7/17/2021 at 5:55 PM, soos_mite_ah said:

Upsetero Heteros: Are the Straights Ok? 

I find it interesting that when I first thought I was asexual, that was easier to accept than the possibility that I may be straight now. I found this video recently about heterofatalism and I thought it was really interesting. 

In the first section from 1:49 to 16:35 the video talks about what straight culture even is and what do LGBTQ people mean when they make fun of straight culture. I really liked this quote about straight culture: 

Quote

11:30- Let's look at straight culture as being a performance of straightness. A culture that finds comfort in binaries and condemns those who don't fit into those binaries.

I think the reason why a lot of LGBTQ people make fun of straight people isn't about making fun of being attracted to the opposite sex as it's more so about the rigid gender roles, how it boxes people in, and how awkward that can be because it feels so forced but then those people go on to complain about gayness being unnatural. Like the same people that have their kids wear shit like this: 

straight cringe.png

are the same people who believe that gay people are pushing an agenda towards children simply by existing without having the self awareness to see how what they're doing is pushing an agenda of how boys and girls inherently behave in different ways.  Personally, when it comes to things like dating and relationship advice, my general rule of thumb is that if the piece of advice can be applicable to both men and women, it's generally good advice, but if the advice has undertones of *men are from mars, women are from venus* it's usually cringe at best (like how you can't approach a guy if you're a woman and you can't double text or else he'll think you're too easy) or straight up dangerous at worse (hypergamy, red pill, black pill). Also, if a dating advice person has an attitude that the opposite sex is like from a different planet because men and women are inherently different on a psychological level, that usually tells me that this person views people through the lens of overly simplified binaries to group people rather than as complex and holistic human.  


Head empty, no thoughts, just vibes ^_^

https://www.theupwardspiral.blog/

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I've identified as asexual for the past few years (I've always been asexual though) and for the most part aromantic as well. 

It was easy for it to remain unknown to me because I grew up in a religious community where having sex before marriage was a huge sin and speaking about sex was a taboo topic. So for the longest while I thought I was just good at waiting and saving myself for marriage. My disinterest in boys and dating was seen as a good thing until I turned 16/17 and people started asking me 'So when are you going to date?? Have you gone on any dates yet?' 

I was truly oblivious towards how big a role sex played in peoples lives, the romance aspect of it was something that I understood much better, but I still had a very 'Disney' view of romance. Personally I feel repelled/neutral at the idea of sex, but I was more repelled by the idea when I was younger.

The perks of being asexual for me is:

-There was little relationship drama in middle school and high school 

-Focusing on my interests and hobbies (and friendships when I have the time), not going through the struggle or need to be in a relationship, I don't feel embarrassed about being in my 20s and always been single because I now know that I'm really not interested

-It's emotionally easy. Usually the worst is just, it can be annoying at how invalidating or invisible the orientation is

-Seeing through some of the lies or blind emotion that people go through when comes with romance/sex, weeding or boring out guys quickly who are only interested in me initially for being female

The cons of it is:

-Romance and sex in songs, movies and tv shows and ads is EVERYWHERE, it gets tiring to watch. Usually while watching a movie or tv show I'll fast forward past the sex scenes because many times they feel very 'extra' and unnecessary, I'll only watch if it's important to the plot or for any interesting conversation or relationship dynamic. 

-I'm not the most socially aware person ever. I'm not super socially awkward either but at the same time I never had to go through the intense struggle when I was younger to 'fit in' socially and learn from the hardships of relationships. Being in your teens and 20s is like relationship bootcamp but I've been seriously un-driven in that area.  I sometimes feel like I've missed out on the intensity and emotional closeness of one on one relationships. 

-Not fitting into the norm socially, being annoyed when people don't believe that I'm not interested in sex

 

On 11/8/2021 at 1:35 AM, bejapuskas said:

Kids have a big carbon footprint and some people have them just because or to "fix their marriage".

Yeah for the longest time I've had this stance too, I've always thought that if I were to have children that I would adopt, and I wouldn't adopt until I was at least 35 and financially stable, and I would want to adopt older children or any age'd children. I feel for similar about animals being unethical to breed as pets (and relating animals with children is a little controversial but I mean...I want everyone to be well off) and how unnecessary and human pleasing having pets is. The biggest difference I see is (compared with getting pets), I see little shame or wrong in women wanting to have children, despite any cons that come with it, its their choice and their biology. Ideally they would be educated on the decision though.

Raising and caring for children sounds like a lot of work to say the least, and a sort of life dedication.

19 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

Do any of you guys identify as non-conforming / genderqueer / non-binary, given that your sexuality does not define your gender? Do you think sex and sexuality in general plays a big role in society's assessment of gender roles?

A little bit? I identify as being female/medium femininity but I used to have some internalized distaste and embarrassment for femininity and I was very against the idea of being dressed to be 'sexy or teenagery' when I was a kid - probably a mix of being asexual, being religious, having a little bit of unknown misogyny towards women and femininity. 

Now if I were to imagine I were ever to be romantically interested in anyone, I don't think gender would really matter to me, it's more so the expression of that person and their personality.

It's really hard to say what my femininity/gender feels like or to put it into words but I feel like my femininity is more earthy or animal-y in a way, and less social or human femininity. Sometimes I feel like a smaller part of me is boy-ish or androgynous but overall I come across as more feminine. I've never dressed for other people necessarily, more so the opposite where I would dress down to be more invisible. When I started dressing more visibly or with any sense of style a couple years ago when my confidence was high enough to do so, its all in artistic expression form.

Edited by Myioko

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8 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

@Derek White  That is really interesting, thanks for sharing. Do you think it is because you have better self-esteem now than you used to as well and you don't define your value by sex, or is it not that?

 

I've never defined my value from sex, but that's not it. I am afraid it might be because of something negative. There can be many reasons. Growing up I didn't have a good relationship with women (except my mom and family members), I got into arguments and fights with them. The girls in my school didn't really like me either. I had very little female interaction in my life. So, I have this belief that I will never get along with women. I know it's bullshit because I've had positive interactions too, but it is in my subconscious mind still. Another reason could be that because I don't like dominant sex and behavior that's expected of men, I am not interested in getting into sexual relationships with women all together. I don't like being the one making moves, I think I may have a slightly submissive sexuality (like a women's) I'm afraid. I'm still straight though. Another reason could be, that I'm too introverted, lazy, and shy. Another reason could be, I am jaded by watching too much porn. Another reason may be that my hormones are messed up, I am kind of skinny and need to put on weight and start building muscle. These all seem like equally viable reasons to me.

Edited by Derek White

“Many talk like philosophers yet live like fools.” — Proverb

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48 minutes ago, Derek White said:

I don't like being the one making moves, I think I may have a slightly submissive sexuality (like a women's) I'm afraid. I'm still straight though. Another reason could be, that I'm too introverted, lazy, and shy. Another reason could be, I am jaded by watching too much porn. Another reason may be that my hormones are messed up, I am kind of skinny and need to put on weight and start building muscle.

All of these sound like feeling inadequate in the face of heteronormative standards. I don't see why being slightly submissive sexually and being skinny would contradict with being straight. 


Head empty, no thoughts, just vibes ^_^

https://www.theupwardspiral.blog/

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32 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

All of these sound like feeling inadequate in the face of heteronormative standards.

Yea.

33 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I don't see why being slightly submissive sexually and being skinny would contradict with being straight. 

Some people assume that being slightly submissive means you are gay. As for being skinny, I meant I may be unhealthy (underweight) that's why my sex drive might be low.


“Many talk like philosophers yet live like fools.” — Proverb

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@soos_mite_ah  I agree, this "queers are imposing their values" seems to me like bunch of projections of the cishet people. I have literally struggled so many times because of peer pressure and nonsense like that. Being open to questioning can be really liberating, I think more cishet people should try and attend pride events to experience this freedom.

@Myioko  Those views about breeding pets are interesting. I remember having this conversation with my friend, when we agreed that beastiality is maybe not as immoral as we think, relatively to the fact that we rape animals all the time in slaughterhouses and then kill them. I mean it is still immoral, but basically accepted. It is similar to the question of whether rape or murder is worse. Both can spread disgusting illnesses around too...

@Derek White  I think if you are sensitive and giving as a person, not trying to be macho and stuff, you could literally develop the skill to be both dom and sub. It's like your  sensitivity can just make you enjoy it for the sake of the other. Sure, if you are lazy or have some trauma that is making it hard for you to be giving in this way, I understand that, but still. I also thought I was purely sub, but then I read some of these posts on instagram and kinda got the hang of what doms do and then I enjoyed being in control, it was funny to say the least. There are many dominant girls though, very straightforward and honest, I think they might be attractive for you maybe? Learning to be dom for me improved my imagination and creativity, as well as compassion.

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