aurum

How Much Do Looks Matter?

25 posts in this topic

Another DM I wanted to answer. This time on the topic of LOOKS and dating for men. Do they really matter? If so, how much? And how much time and energy should be invested?

The Great Debate

This is possibly one of the oldest questions in the seduction community. People have been arguing about whether looks matter or not for what seems like forever.

If you think there's a simple "yes" or "no" answer, think again. This goes way deeper than most people even have a clue.

In this post, I'm going to attempt to expand your mind and force you to consider some angles to this question you may have never looked at. So let's get to it.

Side Number One: Looks DO Matter

This is the opinion of the majority of the population. The average guy is totally convinced that his looks are the primary reason for his success/failure with women.

The reasoning behind this is pretty obvious. Good looking men are often seen dating attractive women while ugly men are not. Or you might hear a woman say "he's hot!" when looking at a picture of a good looking man and talk about how badly she wants him.

In the seduction community, people typically take this a step farther. They might talk about how when a man is good looking, it often gives a woman social approval to date that man. No one is going to look at her funny for dating the guy who looks like Channing Tatum. In fact, most of her friends would be jealous.

Another argument made is that looks give a man confidence. By improving your looks, your confidence will go up and you will do better with women.

Finally, you'll often hear women talk about how a good looking man shows that a man is disciplined and cares about himself. Those are attractive traits.

I don't totally dismiss this side of the debate. I've never once seen a guy not being able to do well with women because he was too good looking. That's just kind of ridiculous.

So there's a PLETHORA of reasons to fix your fashion, fitness and look if you're a guy.

Side Number Two: Looks Don't Mean Shit

This side of the argument comes almost entirely from the seduction community.

What guys who have spent large amounts of time devoted to learning social dynamics and pickup have discovered is that despite their looks, they can do just as well with women as many man could possibly dream. In fact, the guys who I see do BEST with women are typically NOT the guys who are best looking. The enemy of the great is the good, and guys who are good looking often don't have the leverage to really take their dating life to that extreme level.

How is this possible? It's essentially because women are not responding to the external, logical layer of your behavior. They don't give a shit about your resume. They are responding to EMOTIONAL, SUBCONSCIOUS TRIGGERS.

Anyone who has ever done some real marketing is familiar with this concept. The way to really motivate humans to do anything is by speaking to the subconscious part of the brain via the cognitive biases (status, social proof, authority, reciprocity, scarcity, compliance etc).

When you do this right, whatever "logical" reasons a woman may have for liking or not liking you goes out the window.

This is also not to say that women are stupider. Men are just as susceptible to these biases. However, we're looking at things from a male perspective in this thread. Ladies can feel free to make their own.

What this means is that even if your looks are holding you back in certain situations, you can overcome it. And it's a lot easier than you might think once you've got it down. It's a SKILL that can be developed.

It's sad to see a guy who feels like because he doesn't have a six pack, he can't do well with women. That's so ridiculous.

I honestly think that guys who obsess about looks and dismiss actually going out a meeting women do so because it's easier. Sure, going to the gym 6 days a week takes discipline. And it's physically challenging.

But it's not emotionally challenging. It isn't likely going to push your comfort zone. And humans will put themselves through hell physically any day if it means avoiding a painful emotion.

The other problem with saying "it's all about looks!" is that you're relying on something external to feel good about yourself. Even if you are good looking now, what will happen when your looks eventually fade? What will happen when your "socially approved self-worth" gets ripped away from you because you never actually developed real self-esteem?

Anything based in the external is impermanent. When you don't learn to give yourself UNCONDITIONAL love, you'll always need more than the guy who doesn't. And on some real pimp shit, the guy who loves himself for no reason is going to smoke you in the field.

If you sit around and complain about your looks, you're also not likely the kind of person who is going to be successful at anything. You fundamentally have a victim mentality, and so no matter what options you might have for improving your situation, you're just going to throw them away.

Who Is Right?

The answer here is a balanced  approached. When I was learning pickup, I was also in the gym a couple days a week. There's really no reason not to work on your looks, especially if you've had very little success with women in the past.

But at the same time, don't make it an excuse. Realize that no matter what you look like, you can still make it work. And eventually learn to start developing unconditional self-love.

 

 

 

Edited by aurum

 

 

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Don't invest in your looks/personality for women, do it because you care about your health and happiness. 

 

If not for yourself then for the fact that women find that more attractive...

 

 

 

 

Edited by Spiral

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How do you make peace with the fact that you're never going to be "hot" though. 

Ignore the game aspect. I've been struggling for months with knowing that I'm definitely not ugly, but I will definitely never be "hot" in the way that girls stare, or approach me. I know so many dudes that have these wonderful stories about girls coming up to them, and girls that are actively pursuing them and not the other way around. All these men, they all look like regular everyday people, so what is this "x factor" that I'm missing?  

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@WazenHot guy are the minority, now does it come with some benefits? absolutely. how about drawbacks? yup. Like unattractive girl/guys groping/tries to kiss you etc. Also it does at least to me seem like being hot only makes girl want some action  and not necessarily something serious. 

Just because your not necessarily hot doesn't mean that your ugly, or even that girls won't approach you. They simply need another reason to do so, maybe you have a great and magnetic personality. Perhaps you've got a great reputation for you love making abilities, combined with a great sense  of style and attractive body language. 

Regardless being a approach by girl is a strangle luxury, that you hardly need and normally just an ego boost out of, your probably not going to be approach by someone suitable for a relationship anyway. Usually their really drunk, lonely, horny or have a need for attention. Don't have anything against girls approach guys, that's just been a observation i've made.

If I were you I focus on approaching girls, you learn much more that way. Regardless of whether or not girls approach you. If you make a girl interested in you as a person you'll have way more of a ego boost. I mean your genetics is hardly something you worked to obtained.  

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Glad this thread got revived. No way I'd have seen it otherwise. Good information and perspective, brother. 

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This is approached too black and white. 

Like you are either good looking like a model or ugly. 

My grandpa actually told me when I was a kid, it's rare for people too really be beautiful, it's also rare for people to be really ugly. Most people are just about normal looking. 

So for most people looks really isn't the end all be all it's made out to be. 

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Looks probably don't matter what really matter is the body language as that what is what we mostly "listen too" in communication i think body language was about 85 procent and communication with words was about 25 procent probably wrong but about that number but it's definitely possible to improve 

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13 minutes ago, SFRL said:

This is approached too black and white. 

Like you are either good looking like a model or ugly. 

My grandpa actually told me when I was a kid, it's rare for people too really be beautiful, it's also rare for people to be really ugly. Most people are just about normal looking. 

So for most people looks really isn't the end all be all it's made out to be. 

That's a good point.  Also, it can be difficult figuring out what women actually look like these days too.  I see girls with this much makeup on at the gym.  When I was in college a few years ago, there was some kind of no makeup day girls were supposed to celebrate; not even one of them participated xD.

 

 

TsBEVnZ.jpg


"You will soon be going about like the converted, and the revivalist, warning people against all the sins of which you have grown tired."- Oscar Wilde

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I honestly prefer the looks of the no-makeup girl above. Much more real, and thus, prettier.   

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yo seein this thread I had to say something cuz man in school I was always told I was the hottest guy in school. Girls always told me how hot I was. You know how much that helped me. Nooooone I got no girls at all. From what ive seen girls don't give a shit what you look like. They are all about personality. My fat friend got way more girls then me for the longest time because he had a quality personality. I have a model face and body but didn't get any pussy. So to all you guys who thinks looks matter from my experience they dont. Just develop your personality and you can look like fat albert and slay it with the ladies. 

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I will agree that looks don't matter unless you are really ugly. 

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What about the age does age matter in dating? 


Who teaches us whats real and how to laugh at lies? Who decides why we live and what we'll die to defend?Who chain us? And who holds the Key that can set us free? 

It's you.

You have all the weapons you need 

Now fight.

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@Girzo @NoSelfSelf I would say both matter. Some girl get upset when you tell them how old you are. I look older and like girls that are around 23 which is older than me so that’s definitely a factor but it’s hasn’t been deal breaking so far.

In regards to looks well it matter but not as much as many people think and perhaps not in the way you’d expect. I mean hot people are generally more confident, purely based on their looks.

Saying that looks don’t matter is like saying that the colour of he car you want to buy has(assuming you couldn’t change it).

Edited by Spiral

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When younger I was a very atractive guy, recieved lots of compliments from women but I was too shy unable to escalate. So looks mean shit when you dont have social skills, charisma and self confidence

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@Spiral im talking about for exemple a guy in his 50s saying he cant attract girls in their 20s 


Who teaches us whats real and how to laugh at lies? Who decides why we live and what we'll die to defend?Who chain us? And who holds the Key that can set us free? 

It's you.

You have all the weapons you need 

Now fight.

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@NoSelfSelf

The biggest age difference I've experienced is 20 yrs. When I was 42, I dated a girl who was 22. LOL, the weird part was that her mother set us up together, so it obviously didn't bother her parents. I dunno, it was fun but sex was kind of exasperating, like helping a 3-yr-old put a puzzle together or something. She was too carefree and I was too serious. I think it could work out fine if both people had the same mental viewpoint, though. 

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@brovakhiin Exactly but older guys cant see this they think its just looks@PsiloPutty yes that could be a problem not looks :)


Who teaches us whats real and how to laugh at lies? Who decides why we live and what we'll die to defend?Who chain us? And who holds the Key that can set us free? 

It's you.

You have all the weapons you need 

Now fight.

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Yo this guy made some solid points, everybody should listen to him


 

 

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Yeah it is a bit of both. As a chick, I am attracted more to the guy’s general vibe and certain personality traits and the way they carry themselves. Intelligence is a huge point of attraction for me. Also guys who are straightforward, confident, and funny win out for me over a dumb, insecure, boring hot guy. 

However there are certain things physically that I can’t deal with. Like bad breath, short, and overweight. I’ve had experience with this. The guy was my type almost completely but he was very chubby and I just couldn’t feel sexually attracted. So then, his other flaws stood out more to me. 

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This question has been ask as repetitively as the "Does size matter down there?" question. Looks for men DO NOT matter nearly as much as it does for women when it comes to sexual attraction. Even Leo has talked about this in his video and he's absolutely right. Women aren't nearly as visual as men are.  This is also why you hear most pickup "guru" and dating coaches out there saying that "looks don't matter." They aren't saying that to sell suckers into buying their dating products or coaching lessons. Believe me, I've been considering exceptionally handsome, by a lot people in my life (not trying to sound arrogant, but it's true) and my good looks have only gotten me compliments and mostly mediocre quality or relatively average looking women to fall for me. The notion that good looks itself will get a guy laid or a hot girlfriend or wife is really a big cliched misconception brought about by the media and other people who don't know what they are talking about.

Good looks absolutely can help you get notice by more women and will get you a freebies for sex or what have you; however, regardless of how aesthetically pleasing you look, you still need to have very good social and flirting skills and a strong level of confidence to be really good at seducing women. Good looks itself won't even automatically make you popular socially amongst both men and women. It doesn't matter if you look like Henry Cavill, Brad Pitt in his prime, Tom Cruise in his prime, George Clooney in his prime, Idris Elba, Denzel Washington in his prime, Michael Ealy, Bruno Mars, Ashton Kucther, Charlie Cox, Ryan Gosling, Ryan Reynolds, Antonio Banderas in his prime, Javier Bardem, Ricky Martin, Hrithik Roshan, Godfrey Gao, some fashion mode, or sexy male celebrity, etc. Again, when it comes to being a man, it's primarily about having a very good game, if you want high quality and highly physically attractive women.

 

Edited by Hardkill

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