Rilles

Its Almost Impossible To Cure Loneliness

36 posts in this topic

The last 3 years, I have lived completely alone. After the pandemic hit, I didn't even see my friends very much and it was quite normal for me to not speak more than a few words (if any...) over the course of multiple weeks. I guess you could call that solitude/isolation.

I have learned so much during that time. Social contact is very important, it can be what keeps you from going too deep into your own, insane little rabbit hole. Because people reflect your behavior, thus providing you with a social mirror. 

Solitude can also be spiritually valuable, it has been for me. When there is nobody around, reflecting to you all the time "who you are", the chances of you discovering who you truly are, increase. Spiritual people/gurus going full "hermit mode" is no coincidence, I guess I got a good glimpse of what that looks like. 

The upside of having people around is that they can be a source of Love and can also evoke the Love within you. 

Balance is key.

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7 minutes ago, Tim R said:

The last 3 years, I have lived completely alone. After the pandemic hit, I didn't even see my friends very much and it was quite normal for me to not speak more than a few words (if any...) over the course of multiple weeks. I guess you could call that solitude/isolation.

I have learned so much during that time. Social contact is very important, it can be what keeps you from going too deep into your own, insane little rabbit hole. Because people reflect your behavior, thus providing you with a social mirror. 

Solitude can also be spiritually valuable, it has been for me. When there is nobody around, reflecting to you all the time "who you are", the chances of you discovering who you truly are, increase. Spiritual people/gurus going full "hermit mode" is no coincidence, I guess I got a good glimpse of what that looks like. 

The upside of having people around is that they can be a source of Love and can also evoke the Love within you. 

Balance is key.

This is true. And it's also worth repeating that most of us are not psychologically ready for complete isolation. Many new seekers attempt to go full isolation mode and end up either going off the deep end or completely losing interest in spirituality. At a certain point, we can transcend the "need" for social contact. But for most of us, who are interested in living in the world and socializing, it's not advisable to do long-term. 

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10 minutes ago, OneHandClap said:

This is true. And it's also worth repeating that most of us are not psychologically ready for complete isolation. Many new seekers attempt to go full isolation mode and end up either going off the deep end or completely losing interest in spirituality. At a certain point, we can transcend the "need" for social contact. But for most of us, who are interested in living in the world and socializing, it's not advisable to do long-term. 

Yes, that's exactly correct and very important. 

When I read people write things like "there are no other people", I sometimes feel bad for them. They involuntarily trap themselves in a solipsistic hermit mode, forever. And in doing so, they completely rob themselves of any possibility whatsoever to adequately fulfill their social needs. Because you have to believe in "other people", otherwise your loved ones turn into "NPCs". That is fucking horrible and the reason why I spend hours and hours helping people to understand solipsism. Solitude can be extremely dangerous.

This is what happens when spiritual teachings are being misapplied. Misapplication in this context means: too early, too much. 

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It's good to keep in mind that being in solitude doesn't imply loneliness.

You can be alone but not lonely, or you can be with others and deeply lonely. 

To me it seems it's all about how well are your needs for connection, intimacy, belonging, communion, participation etc. being met. 

I think it is possible to mostly meet these even in isolation by yourself, but probably not totally, and if you are more extroverted you will especially need actual other people to help you meet these needs.

@Tim Rvery well said, that is an important point

Edited by TheAlchemist

"Only that which can change can continue."

-James P. Carse

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25 minutes ago, Tim R said:

Yes, that's exactly correct and very important. 

When I read people write things like "there are no other people", I sometimes feel bad for them. They involuntarily trap themselves in a solipsistic hermit mode, forever. And in doing so, they completely rob themselves of any possibility whatsoever to adequately fulfill their social needs. Because you have to believe in "other people", otherwise your loved ones turn into "NPCs". That is fucking horrible and the reason why I spend hours and hours helping people to understand solipsism. Solitude can be extremely dangerous.

This is what happens when spiritual teachings are being misapplied. Misapplication in this context means: too early, too much. 

Such a great way to phrase it. I agree with you that much of the "I am the only being" / solipsism talk is really a way to cope with loneliness or isolation. It is easy to feel "free" if we can tell ourselves nobody is real and nobody matters... but the toll it takes on sanity is immense. I am so glad you've got such a balanced and rational stance on this... you echo my thoughts perfectly. I also think this delicate application of teachings is why Buddhism (even schools such as Zen) have such rigid structures. They are not there merely to "hide" the ultimate truth; they are there to gradually and healthily introduce beings to it. 

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Elaborating on how it felt during the past two months.

I could live life and do what I enjoy but there was a gnawing feeling of not being fulfilled, it was hard to fully relax.

Another insight was that when I think of what other people think about me being alone it makes me actually feel lonelier, so the social pressure definitely adds to it. 

@Tim R Great point!!

Edited by Rilles

Dont look at me! Look inside!

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Socialization tends to go into the famous category of ''damned if you do and damned if don't''.

We just gotta make the best of it and use it as we see most fitting. Although, it's amazing we have that choice and option in the first place :)

 

 

 

 

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58 minutes ago, OneHandClap said:

I also think this delicate application of teachings is why Buddhism (even schools such as Zen) have such rigid structures. They are not there merely to "hide" the ultimate truth; they are there to gradually and healthily introduce beings to it.

Yes!!?

This is also one of the BIG differences between Actualized.org and a Zen monastery for example. In the monastery, the master personally knows the students. He knows where they're at and he can help them from where they're at. This becomes very clear for example in Rinzai Zen, where they practice by using Koans; it's a very personal process of realizing the answer of the Koan and then presenting it to the master. There are no pre-defined answers to Koans and the master must know when the student has understood the Koan. 

Buddhism is a dialectic method. Actualized.org is not: The best we have is this forum. Because other than that, there is no exchange of information between Leo and his followers whatsoever, much less any spiritual guidance. The Zen master wouldn't dream of telling the students all the secrets of enlightenment. With Actualized.org, the situation is quite different, where you can binge watch one video after another, revealing too much, too early. And then people get themselves into trouble. 

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2 minutes ago, Tim R said:

Yes!!?

This is also one of the BIG differences between Actualized.org and a Zen monastery for example. In the monastery, the master personally knows the students. He knows where they're at and he can help them from where they're at. This becomes very clear for example in Rinzai Zen, where they practice by using Koans; it's a very personal process of realizing the answer of the Koan and then presenting it to the master. There are no pre-defined answers to Koans and the master must know when the student has understood the Koan. 

Buddhism is a dialectic method. Actualized.org is not: The best we have is this forum. Because other than that, there is no exchange of information between Leo and his followers whatsoever, much less any spiritual guidance. The Zen master wouldn't dream of telling the students all the secrets of enlightenment. With Actualized.org, the situation is quite different, where you can binge watch one video after another, revealing too much, too early. And then people get themselves into trouble. 

I think that's a phenomenal point. Some of the profound states being pointed to by Leo are misunderstood and trapped in linguistic prisons that seekers from all backgrounds have, based on their conditioning. Especially when you toss DMT and other volatile chemicals into the mix. Solipsism is an extremely easy pit to fall into, and extremely difficult to escape. 

Edited by OneHandClap

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the others are the ego. your need for others is a need for the ego, which is an entity created by interaction with others. without others there is no ego. there is no loneliness except the loneliness of the ego. do not underestimate the scope of the ego.

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1 hour ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Lol.

What.


Dont look at me! Look inside!

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10 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

the others are the ego. your need for others is a need for the ego, which is an entity created by interaction with others. without others there is no ego. there is no loneliness except the loneliness of the ego. do not underestimate the scope of the ego.

super take

just like we transmute something to nothing to everything so transmute lonely to alone to all one

namely your first spiritual job is absolute self love

don't leave home til you have it

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11 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

the others are the ego. your need for others is a need for the ego, which is an entity created by interaction with others. without others there is no ego. there is no loneliness except the loneliness of the ego. do not underestimate the scope of the ego.

No self, no problem. Unfortunately I am living under the control of ego right now. ;) 


Dont look at me! Look inside!

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18 minutes ago, Rilles said:

No self, no problem. Unfortunately I am living under the control of ego right now. ;) 

which is a two-bit memory machine that we needed when we were hunter gatherers and had to survive but now we are in the era of thrive

ego is that incessant self chatter telling you what's what ... watch it carefully and it eases its grip ... this is meditation

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Being alone drives people to meditate, thus increasing chances of knowing the truth beyond the walls.

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