Terell Kirby

Leo’s war on science

21 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

After Leo’s latest video on paradox, I am starting to see the recurring theme of taking frequent jabs at the Church of Science (I give it a name like this because science is a worldview and can turn into dogma).

I would like to hear from Leo and others if they feel the institution of science is the only thing that stands in front of mass human awakening to God.

To me, it is surely the case. However, how do we deconstruct something that is critical to our survival as humans? Isn’t it a slim to zero chance the Church of Science will ever get overthrown, leading to a new regime of God realized beings to emerge as the rulers of the Kingdom of Heaven?

Science is mainstream, and we all know how much collective ego backlash occurs when going against the mainstream. I now see why Leo harps on psychedelics, going up again a monster like the materialist paradigm requires extreme measures if we are talking mass scale awakening , traditional methods like yoga and meditation has no chance against science and institutions/cultural norms it influences.

@Leo Gura you are going up against Goliath, is it realistic to call you David? 

Edited by Terell Kirby

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Science is not an institution...

Out of all the obstacles to awakening, science is but a little hurdle in comparison with other manifestations of human selfishness. 

There won't be any mass scale awakening within our lifetime and science will not be "overthrown", only transformed.

Don't turn science into a Boogeyman. 

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@Terell Kirby Science is not the problem.

It's the mind's perceptual filter. If you only see mind, you're gonna try to find truth in mind.

Once the mind's perceptual filter is gone for a second, you'll see all the insane shit you believed in.

You can never know anything for certain once you transcend the mind for one second.

Science, deduction, logic is just the best thing the mind has to make sense of reality, but it's still just a story.

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38 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

I would like to hear from Leo and others if they feel the institution of science is the only thing that stands in front of mass human awakening to God.

Lol no. Science if wonderful. As long as you don't attach ontology to it.

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Posted (edited)

21 minutes ago, Tim R said:

Out of all the obstacles to awakening, science is but a little hurdle in comparison with other manifestations of human selfishness. 

Not sure if I agree wholeheartedly with this. Science is what tells us we are humans in the first place.

21 minutes ago, Tim R said:

Don't turn science into a Boogeyman. 

Im not doing that at all. Science is critical to human survival, but taking it as the absolute truth is where it gets sticky.

8 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

@Terell Kirby Science is not the problem.

It's the mind's perceptual filter. If you only see mind, you're gonna try to find truth in mind.

Once the mind's perceptual filter is gone for a second, you'll see all the insane shit you believed in.

Science = a perceptual filter.

Edited by Terell Kirby

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No one here is anti-science it's just that most scientists are rationalists and believe that reality can be figured out via logic.  Science simply has to advance to a transrational stage in which things like paradox and mysticism can be embraced.  Only then can there be the unification of science and mysticism.  Like @Tim R said this isn't going to happen in our lifetime but it will happen.


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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Posted (edited)

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Science simply has to advance to a transrational stage in which things like paradox and mysticism can be embraced.

Does mass legalization and use of psychedelics need to happen to speed this process up? I feel like this is a foundational aspect to Leo’s work at this point.

We have to consider how dense and inflexible the mind is for most materialist if we’re looking at this from a systems view.

Edited by Terell Kirby

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2 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

Does mass legalization and use of psychedelics need to happen to speed this process up? 

Totally 

3 minutes ago, Terell Kirby said:

We have to consider how dense and inflexible the mind is for most materialist if we’re looking at this from a systems view.

Agreed


 

Wisdom.  Truth.  Love.

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@Terell Kirby Yeah science is A perceptual filter. But giving up science isn't trancending the perceptual filter.

It's probably the bet thing a perceptual filter can be.

Hypothesis, statistics, deduction and logic.

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Posted (edited)

11 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

@Terell Kirby Yeah science is A perceptual filter. But giving up science isn't trancending the perceptual filter.

Well…perceptual filters are infinite. There’s no way to transcend perceptions.

All perceptual filters, at their essence/core, are the same…which is the imaginations of God.

The scientific/materialistic filter is structured in a way where it prevents you from seeing reality from any other filter because it claims it’s the only filter there is (similar to religious dogma). Science itself doesn’t do this, but the human ego does because it provides protection.

Science cuts favors for humans, and humans cut favors for science in helping one another to survive. It’s almost like a codependent relationship.

Edited by Terell Kirby

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@Terell Kirby

The materialist paradigm isn’t the result of science. Materialism as a school of thought far outreaches anything academic science has done. Rather science (as its typically done today) adopts the materialist paradigm.

Deconstructing science doesn’t end materialism. We have to change more fundamental aspects of or understanding of the nature of reality to do that.

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Posted (edited)

@BenG very true. That’s a solid way to look at it.

Yes, deconstructing science doesn’t mean the end to the materialistic paradigm.. but try to tell a loyal scientist that lol.

Hell, even people who champion themselves as a spiritual are in denial how important the materialist way of living life is to critical to their survival. They’ll even deny that they have survival needs whilst engaging in survival.

Edited by Terell Kirby

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Science is corrupt, like the Catholic church, and needs reform.

But the reform of science is not necessary for you to personally desconstruct science within your own mind. You can jailbreak your mind from science today. But the reform of science as a social system is a lifetime's work.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Terell Kirby said:

After Leo’s latest video on paradox, I am starting to see the recurring theme of taking frequent jabs at the Church of Science (I give it a name like this because science is a worldview and can turn into dogma).

I would like to hear from Leo and others if they feel the institution of science is the only thing that stands in front of mass human awakening to God.

To me, it is surely the case. However, how do we deconstruct something that is critical to our survival as humans? Isn’t it a slim to zero chance the Church of Science will ever get overthrown, leading to a new regime of God realized beings will to emerge as the rulers of the Kingdom of Heaven?

This is where some awareness of human history and the history of ideas/ science is quite helpful as reminder to see beyond the scope of your own lifetime and social conditioning. Modern science is still a profoundly Victorian institution in its worldview, and closely married to industrialism.

It is quite new compared to say, many religious institutions.

It has also been helpful to study how long it takes for certain changes to be made institutionally, and under what conditions, stressors, and potential causes, to be reminded that things change and will change. But someone has to do make change, obviously.
 

Quote

Science is mainstream, and we all know how much collective ego backlash occurs when going against the mainstream. I now see why Leo harps on psychedelics, going up again a monster like the materialist paradigm requires extreme measures if we are talking mass scale awakening , traditional methods like yoga and meditation has no chance against science and institutions/cultural norms it influences.

@Leo Gura you are going up against Goliath, is it realistic to call you David?

It's not a one vs. the other situation, as in it doesn't need to be pre-emptively framed this way, you know. Also something that has been going on for at least 150 years in these types of discussions. Modern medicine vs. "alternative" medicine, alternative spirituality vs. orthodoxy, and on and on. This is all going to have to come to an end one way or another, and it will.

Part of change is us all collectively changing the way that we perceive and frame these issues.

Edited by modmyth

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1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Science is corrupt, like the Catholic church, and needs reform.

I can sense this has become your life’s work, which is admirable. History shows us that the Catholic doctrine is responsible for many persecutions, executions and wars that ensued to maintain its power. Are you prepared for the Church of Science to direct the same kinds of energy towards you as you are pursuing its reform.

5 minutes ago, modmyth said:

It has also been helpful to study how long it takes for certain changes to be made institutionally, and under what conditions, stressors, and potential causes, to be reminded that things change and will change. But someone has to do it, obviously.

Very true, and you are correct about it being a collective effort. We can infuse God realization and the deconstruction of materialism in so many creative ways (writing, art, business, etc). Leo is taking the most direct approach, which tends to warrant the most backlash. Can do nothing but respect that trait of him. It’s brave

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Science has no authority figures, it's a body of knowledge. There may be people who claim authority, but core science is self-sufficient. It's only people that corrupt it, so this whole crusade against science is funny at best. Science is wonderful. Love it instead of pretending you're above it.

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21 hours ago, impulse9 said:

Science has no authority figures

It's worse than that. What we're dealing with is something akin to the DISC:

https://theportal.wiki/wiki/The_Distributed_Idea_Suppression_Complex_(The_DISC)

A headless hydra is the most dangerous when you consider it harmless.

In less fancy terms, science, like all things, is corrupted by survival. You can't point to one person or one institution, because everybody is doing it.


To balance beauty and complexity so perfectly is a divine mystery.

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On 10/4/2021 at 4:13 PM, Terell Kirby said:

Science is what tells us we are humans in the first place.

Untrue. "We are humans" is assumed by natural philosophers and scientists prior to the discoveries and assertions of philosophy and science itself.

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@RendHeaven hmm, Begs the question does science come from the human, or does the human come from science? 

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On 10/4/2021 at 0:31 PM, Terell Kirby said:

I would like to hear from Leo and others if they feel the institution of science is the only thing that stands in front of mass human awakening to God.

It’s certainly not the only thing. There are many factors that are blocking mass awakening.

But the good news is that all these blocks will eventually eat themselves. Mass awakening in that sense is inevitable, and even the blocks themselves are helping leading us there.

On 10/4/2021 at 0:31 PM, Terell Kirby said:

To me, it is surely the case. However, how do we deconstruct something that is critical to our survival as humans? Isn’t it a slim to zero chance the Church of Science will ever get overthrown, leading to a new regime of God realized beings to emerge as the rulers of the Kingdom of Heaven?

 

That’s not how this works.

Science is not some evil that needs to be destroyed by us God realized beings. 

Think integration, not “overthrowing”.

We don’t need to get rid of science. We just need people to understand its limits and proper domain. Right now, it has overstepped where it belongs and what it is capable of.

On 10/4/2021 at 0:31 PM, Terell Kirby said:

Science is mainstream, and we all know how much collective ego backlash occurs when going against the mainstream. I now see why Leo harps on psychedelics, going up again a monster like the materialist paradigm requires extreme measures if we are talking mass scale awakening , traditional methods like yoga and meditation has no chance against science and institutions/cultural norms it influences.

Again, we are not waging war on science.

If you are waging war on anything, you’ve been deluded. So put down the pitchforks.

Will psychedelics, meditation, yoga etc unravel the materialist paradigm? Of course. Will it help people realize the limits of science? Of course.

But not as a war. It will just be the natural outcome of people experimenting with these tools.


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