Consilience

Meditating 2 Hours Every Day - 1 Year Later (& Psychedelics vs. Meditation)

147 posts in this topic

17 hours ago, impulse9 said:

Eckhart Tolle doesn't talk about God much, except in metaphor. ;) I consider him a realized master. Words aren't that important, this work is about the non-conceptual which can't be worded anyway. Even if you write 10000 books, you can't do Truth justice. You should know that.

Some of us just like to talk... :D 100% though

15 hours ago, impulse9 said:

Finally got a chance to watch through the video as well. 

Holy crap man. When you talk about the mundane vs mystical, "the mystical starts to become the mundane and the mundane starts to become mystical". I got a serious Zen jolt hearing that. Yes! Of course. This is exactly and precisely it.

I feel this is what Leo might be missing. The fact that this duality between the mystical and the mundane experience collapses as you spiritually mature, such that your highest mystical visions become irrelevant, and simply looking at a stream of flowing water becomes the experience of profound divinity. This is what the game is, fundamentally. A snake eating its own tail. A grand coincidentia oppositorum.

Really digging your whole vibe so you got a sub. :)

Really appreciate it and very happy the content resonates. ^_^ I definitely am going after vibes... Still working on it haha. 

Super glad you got Zen jolt because yes! Zen, while a bit squirrelly at times, is a powerful fucking lineage. A lot of wisdom to integrate from Zen that is impossible to do in one lifetime. 

And obviously no dig at Leo, but yes this is what I wish he emphasized more. On one level, I see he understands it based on how he responds in the small moments he concedes on the forum. But the presentation in his actual videos and in many other posts is that psychedelics are the ultimate end all be all. I think this is a momentous trap, a much worse trap than "meditating for 40 years and not being God realized." If you're following Actualized.org, using psychedelics, this risk is nearly non-existent. The real risk is getting lazy and not understanding the wisdom of manual practices such as meditation. There's the high chance he's leading a not insignificant amount of his followers into delusion, not setting them up for what they ultimately are after, which is Enlightenment. 

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17 hours ago, Loba said:

Makes me want to try it.  That's dedication, good job.

Thank you. I would trust the instinct to turn within. If you're feeling motivated to try 2 hours, ride that wave and see where it takes you. 

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On 03/10/2021 at 5:06 PM, Leo Gura said:

I'll just ask you this: how come when I talk to people who have done Vipassana or self-inquiry for years and decades, they still have no clue what God/reality/Love is? How is that explained?

You have no clue whether they actually have a clue or not. Any metric you use to judge the "level of awakening" of a person is ego trying to prove that it is "more awake" than another. 

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Posted (edited)

On 10/3/2021 at 3:48 PM, Leo Gura said:

It's not a matter of openmindedness. I am extremely openminded, but years of meditation had gotten me little closer to understanding God or Love. If only it was as easy as openmindedness. One's baseline state of consciousness and genetics have a lot to do with it.

There is no way my understanding of reality could be what it is today if all I did was meditation or Vipassana. No way in hell. Like not even 5% of the way. Maybe not even 1%. That's my experience after years of meditation. Your results may vary.

I think a hybrid approach of hardcore psychedelics and hardcore meditation will yield the best results. Of course that's double the work. Psychedelics will get you the highest understanding, but they will leave you unsatisfied with your embodiment of it.

Leo, I really think you are doing some story-telling about "baseline states of consciousness", "genetics", and "giftedness."  The skills of meditation do take time to develop, and depending on how deep your conditionings are, there might be a lot of work to do before you're in some mystical Jhana.  But the point here is that the mystical Jhana ISN'T the point.  The point is shedding those conditionings--and meditation is one of the most effective tools to do that.  The people that truly go all the way look back and say, "Holy crap, that had nothing to do with me or my body or my character at all."

It's revealing when you say that there's no way your understanding would be what it is today---do you see that you're making the assumption that your UNDERSTANDING is the most important thing?  This understanding is an egoic attachment.  Leo, the little self, wants understanding and clings to it strongly.  All of this is ultimately about your small-self ego, and while that's fine, it is not the true path. 

You are letting yourself get away with this by drawing a line between understanding and embodiment--no such line exists.

@Consilience Thanks so much for sharing your journey, it's inspiring and truly an amazing example.

Edited by Flyboy

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On 10/3/2021 at 4:06 PM, Leo Gura said:

I'll just ask you this: how come when I talk to people who have done Vipassana or self-inquiry for years and decades, they still have no clue what God/reality/Love is? How is that explained?

The same question could be asked about psychedelics.  

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Posted (edited)

24 minutes ago, Shambhu said:

The same question could be asked about psychedelics.  

This. I personally know people who didn't do "100 trips", they did 1000s of trips, DMT, LSD, shrooms, Salvia, mescaline, DXM, even Datura. Very few of them I would consider spiritually advanced. In fact almost every single person that I personally met that I would consider spiritually advanced has never taken a psychedelic in their life.

Psychedelics are amplifiers of consciousness. If your consciousness is at a high level, they will amplify that state. If it's at a low level, they will amplify that. They're not a magic pill. Even my own excursions, while infinitely fascinating, haven't been the most revealing. The most revealing have been the few meditation induced mystical experiences. Because those stuck with me even 20 years later.

Edited by impulse9

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On 10/3/2021 at 5:44 PM, Leo Gura said:

 

I think a hybrid approach is best. Or, in other words, find whatever produces the best results for you. You can't argue with results.

@Leo Gura Finally!

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No one "gets it". Infinity is impossible to understand, by definition. Judging others as to whether or not they "get it" is just more ego grandstanding and perceived superiority, stemming from insecurity in oneself.

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3 hours ago, 4201 said:

You have no clue whether they actually have a clue or not. Any metric you use to judge the "level of awakening" of a person is ego trying to prove that it is "more awake" than another. 

No, it's not ego.

Most so-called enlightened people are actually clueless about many facets of God and say wrong things. A bit of questioning them quickly reveals it.

2 hours ago, Shambhu said:

The same question could be asked about psychedelics.  

The difference is, psychedelics don't eat up 1000s of hours of your life.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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What good are psychedelics if they can't give you a happy and joyful existence? ;) From a high consciousness point of view, they just tend to complicate your life further by filing your your ego with more imagination noise. Whereas a master enjoys every single moment, however that moment might present itself.

You'll grow out of this phase Leo, just like you grew out of the phase where you thought psychedelics were useless.

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@Leilani You do cite some good NDEs which are compelling. My concern there is: 1) that's atypical, and 2) so what? since you can't consistently trigger them. NDEs are just too rare and accidental to be of practical use.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Let me be a bit snarky and ask @Leo Gura, is the vast majority of your experience of life joy or is it not?

If you answer no then you really have no business judging other masters honestly, and you can't claim authority in spiritual matters.

And when you're free of ego to the extent necessary to become a master yourself, you won't be making arrogant statements such as "these Buddhists know nothing, I know better". Even if it's true, even if you're the only person on Earth who *really* gets it, you wouldn't claim such things if you actually understood the implications. Instead you would humbly and lovingly approach your students and let them find truth wherever it may lie. You would fully appreciate the scope of spirituality, and understand that not everyone is at the same level. Basically, your authority is bullshit. :D

And don't get me wrong, I'm roasting you out of love. <3

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2 hours ago, Flyboy said:

@Consilience Thanks so much for sharing your journey, it's inspiring and truly an amazing example.

Thank you dude. Really happy it resonates and appreciate your contributions to this forum as well. 
 

4 hours ago, 4201 said:

@Consilience Great post, thank you for sharing! This is very inspiring and motivating.

Thank you and you're welcome! :)
 

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44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The difference is, psychedelics don't eat up 1000s of hours of your life.

These 1000s of hours would be some of the most fulfilling hours of your life... Of course the ego would hate that, the idea that just being exactly as we are without some far out state could be just as meaningful as merging with God. 

Here's an insight for you - Only the mind of God would have 0 preference between and equal appreciation for awakening to itself as God in a psychedelic state and being in the grounded, sober state and just sitting. ;)
 

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Posted (edited)

A quote I randomly encountered today; it's so relevant :D

"I felt in need of a great pilgrimage. So I sat still for three days and God came to me." - Kabir, a Sufi mystic

Edited by Consilience

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56 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

What good are psychedelics if they can't give you a happy and joyful existence? ;) From a high consciousness point of view, they just tend to complicate your life further by filing your your ego with more imagination noise. Whereas a master enjoys every single moment, however that moment might present itself.

You'll grow out of this phase Leo, just like you grew out of the phase where you thought psychedelics were useless.

Yeap, I agree.


I dress Italian. I'm so sexy it hurts.

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Posted (edited)

54 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

Let me be a bit snarky and ask @Leo Gura, is the vast majority of your experience of life joy or is it not?

If you answer no then you really have no business judging other masters honestly, and you can't claim authority in spiritual matters.

On 4/10/2021 at 0:09 AM, Consilience said:

 

It seems that Leo is not looking for happiness, he seeks to deepen. not to make a profit, but for the passion of an explorer. interesting to see where he goes

Edited by Breakingthewall

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