Differences between liberation and god realization

[JosephKnecht]

On 02/10/2021 at 3:45 AM, Leo Gura said:

I have reached a Love so profound that it is infinitely satisfying.

Reaching in is not so hard, but how does one stay there? 

I too have reached such states, but eventually, I fall off. 

The reason why I fall off, I think is because my attention is not trained enough to stay with the "Not Knowing".

My attention wants to "Know" which grounds me back into duality. 

The best tool I have for improving my attention is mediation. 

Do you know of a better way besides psychedelics? 

 

[Jakuchu]

6 hours ago, JosephKnecht said:

Reaching in is not so hard, but how does one stay there? 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Jakuchu

[Flyboy]

On 10/1/2021 at 3:39 PM, Leo Gura said:

No, God is beyond all that.

Impossible to explain it to you. But it just is. There is nothing higher than God and you will not reach it through Buddhism or Vipassana.

All the Buddhist stages are still imaginary, including their enlightenments.

People doing Vipassana was still playing games. God is not Vipassana.

A Buddhist does not actually understand what God is. It's so obvious.

Well, all I can say is that from direct experience, the world starts looking really different the less solidified your ego is.  Since the experience of reality is basically 1/Ego, I think you are underestimating what happens when you truly bring Ego down to zero.  Psychedelics bypass that to give you your mystical states, but you're fooling yourself if you think those are the same thing as truly experiencing no-self at the level of fundamental mind.  (But Flyboy, you're imagining all that! -- says the person who can't question that belief)

Vipassana is just a tool.  The whole idea is that it sharpens the senses enough to allow you to access the subtlest parts of the ego, like the fabrication of time, space, awareness, and realness itself.  And even that isn't enough... it needs to be combined with extremely strong concentration at later stages to root out the deepest aspects of self.  You literally have no idea what this will do from your current state of sensory perception.  Until you do this work, I don't think you can speak with any authority whatsoever about what the Buddhists do or do not experience.  Judging their words is nonsense.  Have you not considered that the fact you haven't done this yourself makes your "insights" distorted?  How do you know the ego is completely gone on your trips?  How do you know you aren't seeing Absolute Truth THROUGH the ego?  Your assumptions of real-ness just don't stand, and there's plenty of reason to question them.

[Gianna]

On 10/1/2021 at 7:31 AM, GreenWoods said:

you have 5meo in your name:

Someone here

hahahha. very creative. i love it. 

[Leo Gura]

18 hours ago, JosephKnecht said:

Reaching in is not so hard, but how does one stay there?

It may not be possible to stay there since survival at the level of consciousness would be nearly impossible.

[nuwu]

19 hours ago, Flyboy said:

Since the experience of reality is basically 1/Ego, I think you are underestimating what happens when you truly bring Ego down to zero.  Psychedelics bypass that to give you your mystical states

How do one tell if psychedelics are part of the ego constructs and not the other way around?

or what about this

(btw just trying to understand why everyone ITT can't agree on something so fundamental)

Edited October 5, 2021 by nuwu

[Shambhu]

On 10/1/2021 at 5:37 AM, Someone here said:

Is there a difference between 'liberation' .. And 'god realization'

After tasting awakening, one of the first things I recognized was the inability of my vocabulary to communicate the experience or insights.  I have found that Sanskrit is more precise in these matters.

Liberation is usually translated from the Sanskrit words Moksha, Mukti, or sometimes Kaivalya.  The implied meaning is liberation from the cycles of death and rebirth, or from suffering as a human condition.  Not everyone subscribes to reincarnation, but everyone can relate to suffering in general.

God-realization is translated from Atma Jnana or Brahma Jnana, which means knowledge of the true Self, the Absolute, God, etc.  This knowledge is not a simple understanding of the words, but an utter conviction of their truth.  It must be completely obvious and undeniable, in the same way if asked if you are aware, you might answer, "Of course I am."  It is a de-identification with all appearances, and an identification with absolute awareness, just like a wave is water, but water is not a wave.  This knowledge removes such confusion.  

Atma Jnana is the cause and Moksha is the effect.  When you realize that you are not a mind or body, that you were not born, do not age, and will not die, and that you are unlimited, changeless, choiceless awareness, then karma, birth and death no longer apply.  It was all a dream.  As you realize your completeness, you are no longer a slave to desire, and without an attachment to finite things, suffering ceases.  This is liberation which results from realization.

[seriousman24]

Life is exclusively about pleasure/love(what you call devil), I don't know what else to strive for, the only thing to do is to remove any and all limiters, my epic teaching is you should feel good and shouldn't feel bad, won't say more for now cause most don't get it(wrote this cause feels good as in a literal physical sexual/taste like kind of pleasure, I suspect most people's lack of ultra high level sensasional perception fails to reach complex thought itself).
What Leo does makes him feel much better and cooler than others, from my perspective that means he is right and so are you to the extent that you can wholesomely enjoy the debate. The "Delusion" is that you are delusional because you are afraid of being a devil instead we should learn a safe way to be devils and therefore also achieve all these cool things like enlightement/liberation/god realization/love(devil/god).