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GreenWoods

Cessation doesn't exist

85 posts in this topic

 

38 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

@GreenWoods Probably just a definition thing:

There's "nothingness", which means the perception of reality not having a substance and there bot being a self.

There's cessation, that's defined by non-experience, a jump in time. You (or) The universe just restarts itself, and there's no time.

Well the jump in time exists, and cessation is that.

@Endangered-EGO That makes a lot of sense!! Great insight.

40 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

By your definition deep sleep or anesthesia don't exist either 

Yes.

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On 9/28/2021 at 1:38 PM, GreenWoods said:

God is God.

All there is, is all there is and isn't. As it has no other, so it has no self.

Quote

There is no rock bottom.

There is. In the story of course, it's the leveler. As the need to know fades, so does knowing -- including knowing of any lower or higher level. There's just no reference point left. It's the end of mystical experiences, as nothing has any more significance than anything else. Nothing ever leads to nothing happening, there's just nothing apparently happening timelessly for no one separate. Boundlessness being simplicity.

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@The0Self What you write is correct, but it's not the whole picture.

The way I see it, you have gone extremely deep into some facets, and now you over-emphasize on these facets, and haven't gone as deep into God Consciousness as you could.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, GreenWoods said:

@The0Self What you write is correct, but it's not the whole picture.

The way I see it, you have gone extremely deep into some facets, and now you over-emphasize on these facets, and haven't gone as deep into God Consciousness as you could.

You're exactly right. The dream (or what you call God consciousness) has no limit. It can keep on getting better and better forever... But it never compares with this, because this literally can't be any better, as its the end of the dream of better or worse. What I think you're saying is one can always go further into god consciousness... Well, that can actually still appear to happen, but it no longer has any significance, because this is it -- all there is, without outside or inside. The dream of knowing the unknowable of course has no limit, and that's what that sort of (mystical) experience is. If what you're saying is: that can eventually lead to a point where there's finally no further to go... Well, that's this, but in the dream no it never ever leads to a satisfactory end point anywhere other than in the dream of me as an individual, even if that individual is God, which yeah, I apparently thought I'd obtained/realized for myself as God... many times.

And again those God/oneness/love appearances can still happen, they just have absolutely no significance because it along with everything else is just the infinite appearing as whatever, without any meaning or purpose. No person can survive appearances having no meaning or purpose -- it would be too mind blowing (so to speak; it's a story). Without the person it's ordinary, as only the person would hold, as real, the distinction between special and not special. God realization can seem to give a taste of it, since it's basically an infinite cosmic love storm (timelessly, no less) which progresses into near absolute meaninglessness... But it's never actually absolute meaninglessness if a person seems to come back from it.

I'm not negating any of those other facets, but the only facet I'm speaking about is the end of the person, which does (completely) devalue all the facets (including itself) just by its nature.

Edited by The0Self

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@The0Self God Consciousness has no more meaning or significance than an ordinary state. Everything is meaningless. And there is no one to benefit from anything even if there were actual meaning.

But what to make of that? You can't escape the paradox. Deciding to live according to meaninglessness and no self is just as meaningless as anything else. 

The most sensical way to deal with this is probably to just pretend like everything is real, and to construct meaning and purpose. I mean you can't escape that anyway, by behaving like everything is meaningless, you basically give that more meaning and significance than an alternative behaviour.

And in a sense by artificially constructing meaning and purpose, meaning and purpose is actually created and becomes real. Imagination becomes reality. 

Illusions are reality, and that can't be escaped. So why not live with those illusions that make life the most exciting and fullfiling?

 

And from that perspective it makes sense (at least for me) to go for God Consciousness, Love and Infinite Understanding, rather than settle for meaninglessness.

 

1 hour ago, The0Self said:

... But it's never actually absolute meaninglessness if a person seems to come back from it.

As long as that body keeps eating and drinking, some part of the person is still there.

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2 hours ago, The0Self said:

I'm not negating any of those other facets, but the only facet I'm speaking about is the end of the person, which does (completely) devalue all the facets (including itself) just by its nature.

God waking up to Itself has nothing to do with a person.

God imagines meaninglessness (and meaning) to keep asleep. God is beyond these. God is God. 

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, GreenWoods said:

The most sensical way to deal with this is probably to just pretend like everything is real, and to construct meaning and purpose. I mean you can't escape that anyway, by behaving like everything is meaningless, you basically give that more meaning and significance than an alternative behaviour.

And in a sense by artificially constructing meaning and purpose, meaning and purpose is actually created and becomes real. Imagination becomes reality. 

Illusions are reality, and that can't be escaped. So why not live with those illusions that make life the most exciting and fullfiling?

This is a good dilemma. really if you can escape imo. you can completely dispense with any meaning and live flowing without doing anything and without worrying about anything. let things take their course and just be present. Maybe the ideal seems to live in the apparent meaning but knowing its falsehood, not allowing yourself to be trapped by it, but is this possible? it s going to trap you

I think there is a third way: empty your ego and listen. you will be guided. nothing makes sense but everything has purpose

Edited by Breakingthewall

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9 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

This is a good dilemma. really if you can escape imo. you can completely dispense with any meaning and live flowing without doing anything and without worrying about anything. let things take their course and just be present. Maybe the ideal seems to live in the apparent meaning but knowing its falsehood, not allowing yourself to be trapped by it, but is this possible? it s going to trap you

I think there is a third way: empty your ego and listen. you will be guided. nothing makes sense but everything has purpose

Yes that sounds good. ?

Though by choosing that life style, you gave it meaning.

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14 hours ago, GreenWoods said:

As long as that body keeps eating and drinking, some part of the person is still there.

 

Not necessarily. That’s “natural seeking,” you could say. There can be, and is, seeking even without a seeker, it’s just not owned nor experienced as separate and solid.
 

Meaninglessness is never settled for. Nihilism is for the person. Absolute lack of meaning is indescribable.

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On 10/8/2021 at 3:29 PM, GreenWoods said:

Do you think it is realistic to get there with normal meditation?

I've heard that it has been done. Lots of sages, masters, yogis, etc. have talked about this.

It's difficult to describe the meditation technique. But something I like to do is notice sounds, thoughts, any sensory input, come and go. And try to sense into the empty context, and inquire into it. Where does consciousness comes from.

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I understand your point but i struggle to feel it

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On 10/9/2021 at 1:46 PM, The0Self said:

Not necessarily. That’s “natural seeking,” you could say. There can be, and is, seeking even without a seeker, it’s just not owned nor experienced as separate and solid.

@The0Self That's always the case. 

Even with apperent strong seeking, no one is seeking. It's all God's imaginations.

It's just that there might be the additional imagination of control and sense of self. But that doesn't matter.

There is no natural vs not natural seeking. Every seeking is God's imagination.

 

From the relative perspective, you could make the distinction between natural vs not natural seeking. But that's a mind game and not better than anything else like going for God Consciousness.

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On 10/10/2021 at 9:24 PM, noticeom said:

I've heard that it has been done. Lots of sages, masters, yogis, etc. have talked about this.

It's difficult to describe the meditation technique. But something I like to do is notice sounds, thoughts, any sensory input, come and go. And try to sense into the empty context, and inquire into it. Where does consciousness comes from.

@noticeom I think only extremely talented people manage to get there just with meditation. So every one talking about it is by definition extremely talented.

There are easier ways like psychedelics, sleep yoga, lucid dream induced, energy overload from channeling divine energy, shamanic breathing, intense concentration...

But still difficult. 

Edited by GreenWoods

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On 10/11/2021 at 2:49 AM, Alex_R said:

I understand your point but i struggle to feel it

@Alex_R hmm

It requires the awakening that Existence/Reality is Consciousness.

And that everything is God's imagination.

And that perceptions are imaginations and causality therefore is an illusion. 

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On 9/28/2021 at 1:38 PM, GreenWoods said:

This moment right now is all that exists. All of God shapeshifted into this bubble right now. So completely that in a sense there is nothing left of God, God died by becoming this moment.

In that sense there actually is no ground. Because the Ground, or God, fully becomes the bubble, and nothing of that Ground is left. Every bubble is different so there is no commonality, no Ground.

But at the same time, all of that is still God, the Ground. Not-God is still God, because God is everything.

So it's a paradox. 

But if there is cessation, there isn’t paradox, God, or cessation. 


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Times like these are when I find that people butt heads over language. I know Leo and many others are fond of "God" as a term to describe the Absolute, whereas I'm partial to simple "reality" or just "Being" (capitalized because it transcends both being and nonbeing in ordinary language) to get around some of the positivist qualities associated with the word. We're all trying to describe the taste of sugar :) To one person, cessation is a gap in "the real world," while to another, it merely represents the end of the mental continuum known as the self and all self-perception. So, from that standpoint, I see no reason why cessation isn't both real and unreal. It is a non-experience being translated into positive terms. 

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There is Absolute state of conciousness. 

In buddhism it is called cessation. 

Present moment is the same. 

It is God hands down. 

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7 minutes ago, OneHandClap said:

Times like these are when I find that people butt heads over language. I know Leo and many others are fond of "God" as a term to describe the Absolute, whereas I'm partial to simple "reality" or just "Being"

God is Being. But still, these are very different awakenings, very different states of consciousness.

There is a reason why people call God God and not Being. "Being" is like 1% of God Realization.

10 minutes ago, OneHandClap said:

To one person, cessation is a gap in "the real world," while to another, it merely represents the end of the mental continuum known as the self and all self-perception. So, from that standpoint, I see no reason why cessation isn't both real and unreal.

Yes, if cessations are described like these, then you are right.

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4 minutes ago, GreenWoods said:

God is Being. But still, these are very different awakenings, very different states of consciousness.

There is a reason why people call God God and not Being. "Being" is like 1% of God Realization.

Well, again, we all have different associations with different words. It is impossible to see into somebody's head and know if the experiences are the same. Beetles in boxes ;)

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