zazen

Consequences of a unregulated dating market (hypergamy)

209 posts in this topic

Disclaimer: These are not my words but an interesting thread I came across elsewhere and would like to share, and have a healthy discussion on. 

Just a definition of Hypergamy : the action of marrying or forming a sexual relationship with a person of a superior sociological or educational background. Women's instinct to mate with superiors genes basically for  the betterment of the species (evolution)

 

Unless you're chad, famous or a sociopath - you won't have multiple women in love with you at the same time. Unless you're a ridiculously beautiful and sweet woman - you won't ever marry an "elite high value man™" Hypergamy and polygamy whilst complementary, are not sustainable. They are not sustainable, because they exclude the vast majority of the population. Most men are by definition, not elite high value men. Most women are not exceptionally beautiful and chaste, nor of the correct temperament and genetics to be marriageable for an elite man.

 

The role of religion in society, in large part, is to regulate the dysfunction that results from these instincts. It forces the men who can have many women to pick one, and all the average woman who think they deserve a top 0.1% man to date a man at their own level. So civilizational monogamy is probably the greatest gift of religion. It essentially ensures the vast majority of the population gets a mate, by curbing natural instincts and holding people accountable to their families and communities. Atomised irreligiosity breaks this. You won't "fix society" if you allow hypergamy and polygamy to run amok unchecked. Without adequate social pressure, most women would rather die alone surrounded by cats, than date a man at or just above their own level - especially if a superior man used and left her before.

 

A woman who has had sex with top tier men thinks she is deserving of a top tier man for marriage and refuses to "lower her standards" - not realising that she never met those men's standards for marriage to begin with - hence why they're gone. Men sleep with women they wouldn't marry and can detach emotion from sex. So women are not only naturally predisposed to feel entitled to the best for no logical reason whatsoever, irrespective of their own value and what they bring to the table, but are furthermore susceptible to even greater delusion when said men give them an oxytocin induced taste. This is why the dating market, like so many markets, needs regulation. When it's laissez-faire, the majority of people lose out whilst a few winners get more than their fill. And society stops working properly when the majority of people are forever single or divorced.

 

Traditional Abrahamic religion of course, is that form of regulation. Extreme feminism is the antithesis, because it is anti-regulation. It promotes a free for all, which naturally means a lot of sex for a minority of men, and a dearth of loving committed relationships for most women. You can, quite literally, trace the problems with the mating market today back to the absence of religion. What other system regulates mating practices? None. Doesn't matter how you feel about God or religion - that's irrelevant. What's important is a functioning system.

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As leo mentioned in one of his videos regarding we need regulation on devilry ie in our hunter gatherer days we could get by without much regulation but at scale we need government and regulation or else civilisation won't work. In today's society the only regulation force on our sexuality is ourselves. It is only our level of awareness of our human nature and by choice and consciousness we can make decisions that are good for us in the long term and for society at large. This will be the greatest test of our times. 

 

Edited by zazen

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Still waiting for the ban on toxic redpill shit to be enforced...

This is all unhelpful nonsense. The number of lies in this is almost the number of total sentences.

We can have discussions about this nonsense over and over again every week.

But I personally feel that it should be treated the same way that conspiracy theories are treated here.

Edited by flowboy

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Im not posting this in bad intention or faith. Forget about red pill, we can't deny human biology and evolution regarding why and how we mate. We have to understand nature to understand the problems that we currently face and so we can find solutions to them. We are seeking truth and actualising ourselves, and thus society to a better way of being. Lets start with truth first.  

Biological evolution is slow, cultural evolution is fast, this is the essential problem humanity is facing today. Our lizard brains simply haven't had enough time to adapt to the chaos of the modern age. Sorry that modern society/technology is putting our human nature in our face, but we must look at things for what they are and yes, also for what they can be through conscious effort on our part. But to be blind to what is because we think what society should be is part of the problem also. 

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I think if OP is engaging in good faith there's nothing wrong with these kinds of posts

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So if religion or evolutionary biology is mentioned thats automatically red pill? To be clear, the usual red pill crowd have their own biases and issues, coming at that information and giving a negative spin on it coming from bitterness and hate, and I'm well aware of that. 

What are the lies you mention, that wasn't my writing but maybe I'm missing something. Thats why I wrote lets have a healthy discussion as I'm open to learning. Essentially there is a mismatch between our animal instinct and our modern environment. Our modern challenge is to act from intelligence rather than instinct. But our culture can't always override our biology, we have to understand it and work with it. 

For example, red piller's advise to 'spin plates' to get the relationship you want as your choosing out of abundance. But doesn't spinning plates ruin the very women (emotional trauma by leaving them) and thus society in the process that you would want to have that good relationship and maybe children in? I haven't been able to get a response yet of them. They want monogamy then the other hand claim spin plates bro. 

 

Edited by zazen

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21 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

I think if OP is engaging in good faith there's nothing wrong with these kinds of posts

It's a toxic ideology because it is full of lies, promotes victim mentality in men, and is very derogatory and unfriendly towards women.

You can tell, because no women are into red pill.

That should be a red flag.

 

Less subtle clues would be "regulation of the sexual market", which is a concept I challenge anyone to explain in a way that is not toxic and horrible xD

Edited by flowboy

Erik Jongbloed - Transformational Coaching  
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The problem is, that your conclusions are based on a set of extremely oversimplified assumptions and generalizations. That's why this entire post, from the quality standpoint, is pretty much a pile of shit.

2 hours ago, zazen said:

Unless you're chad, famous or a sociopath - you won't have multiple women in love with you at the same time.

This is the perfect example of you oversimplifying shit. I've met men who are absolute bums, and didn't fit into neither of these categories, yet they didn't struggle with getting laid. So your assumptions can be proven false by direct experience.

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@Knowledge Hoarder  It's not even his own text. He pulled it from some other source. Probably an unhealthy reddit group.

I refuse to spend energy arguing against nonsense that OP didn't even come up with.

Edited by flowboy

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Kill indecision and self-sabotage - Go from reactive to proactive - Become organised, focused and motivated

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28 minutes ago, zazen said:

Thats why I wrote lets have a healthy discussion as I'm open to learning.

I'm all for a healthy discussion. But a healthy discussion starts with healthy sources of information.

I don't feel like spending energy arguing against a long-ass rant by some idiot that you copy-pasted, I'm not that eager to argue at all really.

Let's look into what question you were trying to answer by going to this source that you pulled this from. Before you learnt all these concepts like hypergamy and regulated sexual market. Even go back before the evolutionary biology.

What is the question you were looking for answers to?

Then let's just ask that here, much more efficient and healthy. There is a personal core motive or question behind your interest in this stuff, and I'll be more than happy to talk about that.

Edited by flowboy

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@Knowledge Hoarder

I got this from elsewhere. I agree the their can be oversimplification and generalizing, but I guess we generalise so that we can see the rule and not just the exception to it.  Those bums ( not sure if they were the exception or not) they must have been exhibiting strength on some level which other even successful men maybe don't. Women are looking for strong genes, and security, ideally in the same man to varying degrees which can be hard to find. That is why women flocked to 50 shades (with no marketing was a best seller for months to the point in the UK they ran out of silver ink for the book lining) the guy had both aspects of what women desire or the new show sex life, which shows one man who has it all (on the security side) but the sex is lack luster and the woman goes for the guy she has great sex/emotions with, although he doesn't provide the security. 

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People only get into this stuff because they have been rejected or otherwise hurt by women.

The solution is to address that painful experience directly, instead of getting lost in these types of belief systems.


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@flowboy Less subtle clues would be "regulation of the sexual market", which is a concept I challenge anyone to explain in a way that is not toxic and horrible.

 

I agree, regulation by force is terrible, hence we regulate ourselves by choice. If you don't regulate your instinct to gorge food which we are driven to do you'd gain weight and have health issues, but we regulate our instinct because we have intelligence (consciousness). Yes, today we are free by law and we should be happy for that, but that doesn't mean we are free from our instincts and that can clearly be seen ( and our level of consciousness can be seen ) by the dating scene today. Not only did big city living split is from community but now from a companion. As urbanisation increases these issues will only become more prevalant. 

 

@flowboy It's a toxic ideology because it is full of lies, promotes victim mentality in men, and is very derogatory and unfriendly towards women.

 

Agreed, maybe it started sincerely by men who wanted to understand why they were having dating problems or for the over 50% divorce rate initiated 70% of the time by women. But what its become is toxic. I don't look down on women and have empathy for where men and women are at today, hence I'm trying to understand the situation and what solution their could be. I wrote the below in another thread here:

 

A lot of red pillers can become bitter by reality and rage sets in but they must realise this instinct (hypergamy - to reward and procreate with strength) is what drove men to raise themselves, and in doing so raise civilisation along with it, along side women. Without this evolutionary pressure we wouldn't be where we are today. Realise it for what it is, a beautiful mechanism of which a lot of it is subconscious - forgive them for they know not what they do.   

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We can't regulate the dating market. Do you want to be forced to have sex with women you are not attracted to or repelled by ?

So why should women be forced to have sex with guys they are not attracted to ?

Stop wasting your time with this non-sense. Society will not hand out sex to you neither should they

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2 minutes ago, flowboy said:

People only get into this stuff because they have been rejected or otherwise hurt by women.

The solution is to address that painful experience directly, instead of getting lost in these types of belief systems.

Part of addressing the pain is understanding it and awareness. I wanted the forums thoughts on this piece as it raised some interesting points and I often think what society will look like down the road. 

 

Another bias from red pill and content in general is that its coming from big cites where promiscuity is higher and the culture a certain way. For example, the fresh and fit guys or pick up artists from California in the big cities (LA) dish out content on their experiences with women, and maybe in that city/culture/environment their are a lot of women that way, and the women they in particular put them selves in front of (at clubs) so that gets projected out onto the population. Then people living in different environments (smaller cities, rural) watch that content and they project that onto their local environment and think thats how the people in there environment are. They then behave and act that way, and so create a self fulfilling prophecy. 

 

The same way the news has a bias towards negativity ( we need to survive before we thrive - show us the threat ) and that drives views. Media also has a bias towards the worst aspects , but we all live online and so our perception of reality gets warped towards the worst, which we then create in reality as thats how we behave towards it. Interesting.

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7 minutes ago, zazen said:

hence I'm trying to understand the situation and what solution their could be

The solution lies in solving the fundamental problem at the individual level.

The individual experiences pain, rejection, divorce - and becomes bitter.

That bitterness makes him vulnerable to believe in these sorts of stories, which are basically an externalisation of the problem ("It's society's fault that I've been hurt")

So helping the individual process his pain properly, helping him integrate the healthy masculine, and restoring his trust and love towards the feminine, is where the solution is.


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Kill indecision and self-sabotage - Go from reactive to proactive - Become organised, focused and motivated

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5 minutes ago, museumoftrees said:

We can't regulate the dating market. Do you want to be forced to have sex with women you are not attracted to or repelled by ?

So why should women be forced to have sex with guys they are not attracted to ?

Stop wasting your time with this non-sense. Society will not hand out sex to you neither should they

Thats the point of that article. If we don't regulate our mating choices what happens to society. I'v turned down sex with women who had boyfriends, even husbands because I didn't want to be a home wrecker and know the consequences ie broken family = children aren't raised in stability = unstable society down the line = boomerangs around to eventually affect me if i stay in such society. 

Do we do whats good for our biology and short term impulse or whats good for our emotional health on the long term and for society by choosing to be with one partner. 

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4 minutes ago, flowboy said:

The solution lies in solving the fundamental problem at the individual level.

The individual experiences pain, rejection, divorce - and becomes bitter.

That bitterness makes him vulnerable to believe in these sorts of stories, which are basically an externalisation of the problem ("It's society's fault that I've been hurt")

So helping the individual process his pain properly, helping him integrate the healthy masculine, and restoring his trust and love towards the feminine, is where the solution is.

Love this and agree. Get better not bitter, part of that getting better involves understanding human nature :)

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3 minutes ago, zazen said:

Love this and agree. Get better not bitter, part of that getting better involves understanding human nature :)

So how to move from there into solving it at scale... not easy.

Perhaps a marketing effort that appeals to the bitter people, meets them where they are at, but then coaxes them through a journey of healing, forgiveness and integration. Bit of a bait-and-switch, but it could work.

Edited by flowboy

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Kill indecision and self-sabotage - Go from reactive to proactive - Become organised, focused and motivated

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23 minutes ago, zazen said:

I got this from elsewhere. I agree the their can be oversimplification and generalizing, but I guess we generalise so that we can see the rule and not just the exception to it.  Those bums ( not sure if they were the exception or not) they must have been exhibiting strength on some level which other even successful men maybe don't. Women are looking for strong genes, and security, ideally in the same man to varying degrees which can be hard to find.

A lot of what you consider "strength" is simply a guy who's not afraid to expose himself and talks to a lot of women, and people in general, in an authentic way. There's really no bucket list of what you need to have as a guy to be successfull with women, in my opinion. A lot of it is just numbers game. Rejection, rejection, rejection, and then finally success. Of course, there are things you can do as a guy, that will make you more attractive. And there are ways to fuck up your attractivness. But essentially, it's a brutal trial and error process, and most women will not wanna/won't sleep with you, no matter what you do.

A big portion of success in life is simply you, not being a little bitch and exposing yourself to opportunities. Taking life head on, so to speak.

30 minutes ago, zazen said:

That is why women flocked to 50 shades (with no marketing was a best seller for months to the point in the UK they ran out of silver ink for the book lining) the guy had both aspects of what women desire or the new show sex life, which shows one man who has it all (on the security side) but the sex is lack luster and the woman goes for the guy she has great sex/emotions with, although he doesn't provide the security. 

The 50 shades of grey was exciting when it first came out, but after that the popularity went sort of downhill. I've also heard some women say it's boring, so I don't know about that? but I get your point. Strenght and dominance definitely can be big afrodisiacum.

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I think if men want to change the way the dating market works, anyone who suggests this should start by having a romantical relationship with an older and unattractive woman. There are many lonely obese, bitter or unsocial woman out there. Start with the ones with some mental or health problems, too.

Then begin a family and your kids can be the first in line for a regulated dating market.

After all, if that is your vision, you should be willing to take the first step? ;) 

 

For anyone else I recommend this read.

 

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