Tangerinedream

Can we stop with the vulgar and toxic language here?

74 posts in this topic

@Karmadhi Pickup isn't a theory, it's a unique experience with highs and lows in developing ones sexual potential.

Those who have done real pickup don't categorize it as theory, nor criticize it from a low position.

Edited by Terell Kirby

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2 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

@Terell Kirby What is wrong with improving your skills on getting girls? Being an angry incel is not better.

You are 100% correct.

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City boys had to create their own pick up theory. So complicated. In the country, it's just all about literally improving your pick up truck. xD


My Youtube Channel- Light on Earth “We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle and knows.”― Robert Frost

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30 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

City boys had to create their own pick up theory. So complicated. In the country, it's just all about literally improving your pick up truck. xD

Just having a better truck/car? Lol

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Just now, Hello from Russia said:

Just having a better truck/car? Lol

Not necessarily. Old beat up trucks have their charm. Jack it up, add tough tires, screw with the exhaust system to make it really loud. Take it mudding. Rev it up really loud when you drive by girls. 


My Youtube Channel- Light on Earth “We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle and knows.”― Robert Frost

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2 hours ago, Terell Kirby said:

Pickup isn't a theory, it's a unique experience with highs and lows in developing ones sexual potential.

Those who have done real pickup don't categorize it as theory, nor criticize it from a low position.

Nailed it, it didn't feel like theory to me it felt like a genuine experience you can't put into words, looking back its probably the most emotionally draining and frustrating experience I went through but I would do it all over again if give a second chance. You develop very fluid social skills and little doubts about finding quality partners and develop a deep trust in yourself but it does come at a price.  

3 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

If you could start over would you have approached pickup and attraction in a different less biased, less pragmatic way? Or are such views neccesary to get success? Was your approach already mature and unbiased relative to most guys that do pickup?

You can develop your dating and social skills without going to deep into pickup but to have a "holistic" understanding of attraction, (both good and bad) you typically have to very biased and unconscious. There are some things Ive learned about dating and social interactions only by pushing the limits as far as I could and reached insights that wouldn't be grokked using the more "safer route" The only down side to this is that you pick up a lot of unhealthy beliefs about women and it can trap you from forming deeper connections with them. Ive done a lot of inner healing to overcome those beliefs but occasionally I also find myself slipping back into my old ways of thinking

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24 minutes ago, blueberries said:

Haha yes, I have had casual sex after nights out a few times but been in a relationship with the same person since I turned 20.

But I'm 24 so I guess I still have a few years of my sexual prime left to find this cock carousel...

Yeah, my experience is that a lot of the women I know have been in LTR during their 20s. Others just had a few relationships that failed, but none because they were jumping from Chads to Chads.

https://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2018/11/13/why-the-cock-carousel-is-bullshit-according-to-science/

^ Here is a good read on the level of delusion coming from incels, regarding that matter.

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12 hours ago, Terell Kirby said:

Those who have done real pickup don't categorize it as theory, nor criticize it from a low position.

Idealization IMO.

I’ve done maybe thousands of approaches from pickup. Of course there is a theoretical component to it. Difficult to say “it’s an just experience” when you also attend seminars, watch YT videos, read books etc.

Pick up has its dogmas and its beliefs about the world like anything else.

Edited by aurum

 

 

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Pickup certainly involves plenty of theory. That theory is important. But that theory also comes with a toxic culture. The two are intermingled in a tricky way that is not easy to dis aggregate.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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The first time I watched one of Leo’s videos l almost wrote him an email. In it I was going to say something like, Hey man, Don’t you realize that your vulgar language immediately alienates segments of the population. I was thinking of my mothers generation and worldview which I would categorize roughly as blue/ orange conservative and reserved,,, I’m glad I didn’t. 
Yesterday I posted the Jimmy Buffet song - Why Don’t We Get Drunk and Screw 

So yeah at times I see my own hypocrisy. On the other hand though I see how crucial it is to go against herd mentality and group think and so giving expression in a coarse manner is or can be crucial for individuation. 
The whole idea of pick up to me is distasteful and looks completely phony and shallow. Nothing more than how to manipulate women for my own selfish interests. But on the other hand doing pickup years ago would probably have helped me greatly because of my social awkwardness. So once again I see my own hypocrisy (maybe) limited or dualistic thinking (for sure).

I feel this community can be very helpful for many kinds of people with different worldviews and lifestyles. One thing that would help greatly is greater leeway in allowing others to admit and express what their own shortcomings and vulnerabilities are or have been without getting a lecture from others about what is most obvious. To do so as a part of witnessing more fully what may have always been somewhat of a blind spot but one that is getting into the light and starting to heal. We don’t need obvious advice or to be lectured about what is obvious. To phrase it as my ex-brother-law would say- “It’s the don’t shit on a mad rattlesnake kind of advice.”  Yes, people don’t need to be told that,,,, they already know.

One other relative point that comes to mind that is more obvious to some than others. You can see how unhappy people lash out in subtle and not so subtle ways. Hurt people hurting other people,,,,, This can be quite difficult to work with. Personally I observe my tendency for reacting instead of consciously responding when others are habitually negative in their remarks. I’ve observed this in myself especially in the past. It’s the tendency to feed on the secret joy of being negative or sounding a sour note,,,schadenfreude. Those who claim that they never do it most likely are in denial. At some point in the near future I will probably witness this phenomena manifesting after it has occurred. Most all of us need to uncover and witness this phenomena and allow it to heal. This requires not succumbing to inner criticism or guilt. The insecure will often react with some form of one-up-manship. People need to be given some space. They don’t don’t need to be lectured about the obvious. Most all of us frequently make mistakes and also appear to contradict ourselves, but sometimes only in the appearance of things.

The golden rule is a pretty good standard to go by. 


"To have a free mind is to be a universal heretic." - A.H. Almaas

"We have to bless the living crap out of everyone." - Matt Kahn

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1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Pickup certainly involves plenty of theory. That theory is important. But that theory also comes with a toxic culture. The two are intermingled in a tricky way that is not easy to dis aggregate.

Of course. The premise is that getting laid by a large quantity hot women will provide you happiness and fulfillment. This is the toxic element of the theory..if you want to call it that. To me, it’s a natural, but mistaken, assumption of most young heterosexual males.

Theory + practice = lifestyle.

2 hours ago, aurum said:

Difficult to say “it’s an just experience” when you also attend seminars, watch YT videos, read books etc.

This is the case if you’re only caught up in the theory without doing the real work to make it a lifestyle. True appreciation for the benefits and detriments of being a PUA cannot come from understanding theory alone. You have to have lived it to truly get the wisdom from it. Which allows you to transcend it, versus only understanding the theory and criticizing it (which I get sense from a lot folks on this forum).

Edited by Terell Kirby

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Pickup is such a non black and white issue.

U'll preface this by saying the following. I agree wholeheartedly with the critiques of PUA that asserts claims of: 1) Toxic masculinity, and 2) Misogyny.

However, Pick up, partially, feels a void left by society. Many people are left suffering by the current state of consciousness of current society, and the accompanying effects of this (i.e. poor parenting practices, lack of funding for public services).

I believe pick-up has prevented 1000s of suicides around the world.

It certainly doesn't solve the puzzle for people. By no means. However, it does give people some sense of a way out of the suffering of their lives.

Personally, I didn't even know how people had conversation before starting pick up. It helped me with that.

However, at the same time, I certainly fell into the trap of using it as a form of pseudo-healing.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps, in some aspects, pick up can be compared to medication. It papers over the cracks. And one day if you want to live a beautiful life, you will have to abandon the medication, and work on your inner issues at a deep level. 

However, that medication can stop you from ending your life, and make you more able/ willing to do the healing work when the time comes.

NB: This touches on PUA more with regards to the hardcase newbies. I was one of these.

Edited by SLuxy

"I wanted only to try to live in accord with my true Self. Why was that so very difficult?" - Herse

"As soon as you trust yourself, you will know how to live.” - Goethe

"There are no bad parts" - Schwartz

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3 hours ago, Terell Kirby said:

This is the case if you’re only caught up in the theory without doing the real work to make it a lifestyle.

I would argue that it’s still the case, even if you are actively applying the theory. Even if you spent only a few hours learning theory and then spent hundreds of hours going out and applying, that theory is going to color your entire experience. It will not only give you expectations, but it will be the lens through which you do your sense making post a night out.

In essence, unless you really studied zero pua theory, the experience and the theory are inseparable. And if you did consume zero theory, then you hardly fit any definition of a pua. You’re just a dude who likes to go out and meet girls. Which may actually be healthier lol.

3 hours ago, Terell Kirby said:

True appreciation for the benefits and detriments of being a PUA cannot come from understanding theory alone. You have to have lived it to truly get the wisdom from it. Which allows you to transcend it, versus only understanding the theory and criticizing it (which I get sense from a lot folks on this forum).

I agree with that for the most part.

I’ll nitpick though and say that not everyone has to live it to understand every aspect of it. Some people simply have the wisdom from other areas of life to avoid it or form valid assumptions. I don’t have to have driven a race car to form some basic assumptions about what that is like.

And sometimes being in something for so long can actually distort your perspective. You’re so caught up in it that you become blind. And even a outsider who knows nothing about it can see it because they don’t have the biases you’ve developed.


 

 

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