I need some advice

[Ilan]

Okay here is something I’m facing. In my circle of friend, I have one very smart scientific guy. I consider him the smartest of my friend but he’s not into spirituality and consider this as bullshits. He’s not your typical scientific guy. He always questions stuff, never satisfy if he can’t visualize how it works, always questions authority and very very grounded in his life.  time I spend with him is very very enjoyable and productive as we share good ideas on life. He naturally understands how to live the good life. So every time I see him I can’t help it but feel  to suggest him to try a small amount of al lad. I always have retain myself and never suggested anything as I do not know if I’m being a devil doing that. What do you think about that ? 

[Ilan]

Also I should mention he has a very healthy ego never fall into the trap of trying to be right, always taking in consideration the other point of view. He’s just never been introduced properly to spirituality 

[Marcel]

@Ilan

Making suggestions does not make you a devil. Don´t worry about that.

Forcing it on him would make you one, but there is a huge difference between these two as you can probably tell.

[Ilan]

Okay thanks for reply, you think it is a good idea to start with al lad ? If ever he accepted, cause he never meditated. I’m scared that he has a bad trip. Which dose of al lad would you recommend ? 

[Marcel]

@Ilan

I cant give any advice on psychedelics, i myself have not done any in my entire life yet. I do know about lad, but i have no idea what the appropriate dose would be.

Maybe you should create a new thread leading with that question, and describing the context of the situation.

[Ilan]

Okay Marcel, thx for the kindness

[Bluff]

8 hours ago, Ilan said:

He always questions stuff, never satisfy if he can’t visualize how it works

Make him questioning his idea of what he is. Tell him to be very precise about that and to come up with an answer he is very satisfied with. 

Also what can be very enjoyable to elaborate:

Make him lay down his hand flat on the table. Then tell him to lift his index finger. Then you ask him: how'd you do that? 

He will come up with something like "I thought to do it, and then I did it" 

Ask him "did you really think about it first? Why is it then, that you can have the thought (I want to lift my finger) without actually lifting it?" 

You may ask at some point "isn't it, that I lifted your finger by telling you to do so?" 

"But then what made me asking you to lift your finger?" (maybe it is that what you are reading right now?!) 

You should end up with an interesting discussion about free will and how reality works. 

Just make him question these things, he's never questioning. 

[Dazgwny]

I think you may mis-read your mate a little. You say he always takes others point of view into consideration and doesn’t fall in to the trap of trying to be always right yet he considers spirituality to be bullshit. This reeks of close mindedness. Just because he’s never satisfied unless he can see how a materialistic construct works, doesn’t make him receptive to other points of view. He may listen, but something tells me his ego will think his point of view is ‘right’. Needing introduced to spirituality in itself shows this, if he was open minded enough he’d have begun investigating himself. Coincidentally I’m re-listening to Leo’s 3 part series on the deconstruction of science. Some of his best work really hits the spot. I’d suggest you have this scientific mate have a watch of that to get his mind spinning, then maybe he’ll open up to the thought of some spirituality and possibly psychedelics 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Dazgwny

[Mohammad]

If you want to introduce him to spirituality, I don't think that introducing psychedelics would be the best idea. I mean I have lots and lots of friends who do use psychedelics alot, but none of them are necessarily into spirituality or even interested very much in spirituality. Psychedelics act as supplements in spiritual learning and development. So i suggest first introduce him to something like meditation. Explain its scientific benefits for him, try to help him to meditate for a while, try to use his intellectual curiosity. If you saw good feedbacks, then you can introduce him to psychedelics. Because I think if he is not interested in spiritual development, using psychedelics at best would be a fun experience for him. But of course I might be wrong.

Either way, it seems that you are a good friend

[Stovo]

Sounds like he's stuck in rationality and materialism, I know the types. They seem open minded at first, but they're only open to ideas that are grounded in rationality and materialism. 

If I were you I would accept him for how he is, but gently guide him towards spirituality. Don't force anything on him, and don't expect him to change because most likely he will not. 

Don't waste your time in any debates. 

[Tim R]

@Ilan Why do you even want him try AL-LAD? Like.. what's your goal??

[Ilan]

4 hours ago, Bluff said:

Make him questioning his idea of what he is. Tell him to be very precise about that and to come up with an answer he is very satisfied with. 

Also what can be very enjoyable to elaborate:

Make him lay down his hand flat on the table. Then tell him to lift his index finger. Then you ask him: how'd you do that? 

He will come up with something like "I thought to do it, and then I did it" 

Ask him "did you really think about it first? Why is it then, that you can have the thought (I want to lift my finger) without actually lifting it?" 

You may ask at some point "isn't it, that I lifted your finger by telling you to do so?" 

"But then what made me asking you to lift your finger?" (maybe it is that what you are reading right now?!) 

You should end up with an interesting discussion about free will and how reality works. 

Just make him question these things, he's never questioning. 

Interesting! Thanks !  

[Ilan]

3 hours ago, Dazgwny said:

I think you may mis-read your mate a little. You say he always takes others point of view into consideration and doesn’t fall in to the trap of trying to be always right yet he considers spirituality to be bullshit. This reeks of close mindedness. Just because he’s never satisfied unless he can see how a materialistic construct works, doesn’t make him receptive to other points of view. He may listen, but something tells me his ego will think his point of view is ‘right’. Needing introduced to spirituality in itself shows this, if he was open minded enough he’d have begun investigating himself. Coincidentally I’m re-listening to Leo’s 3 part series on the deconstruction of science. Some of his best work really hits the spot. I’d suggest you have this scientific mate have a watch of that to get his mind spinning, then maybe he’ll open up to the thought of some spirituality and possibly psychedelics 

You’re a little hard ^^ I mean, it is understandable for a scientific minded people who’s been born in an orange family and who’s encounter some hippies and people who claim to have psychic abilities claiming they are the spiritual people of the universe.. But yes you are certainly right in a way and thanks for the advice, even though I think it is to early for this episode for him.. you can’t confront the ego stabing it on the face

[Ilan]

3 hours ago, Mohammad said:

If you want to introduce him to spirituality, I don't think that introducing psychedelics would be the best idea. I mean I have lots and lots of friends who do use psychedelics alot, but none of them are necessarily into spirituality or even interested very much in spirituality. Psychedelics act as supplements in spiritual learning and development. So i suggest first introduce him to something like meditation. Explain its scientific benefits for him, try to help him to meditate for a while, try to use his intellectual curiosity. If you saw good feedbacks, then you can introduce him to psychedelics. Because I think if he is not interested in spiritual development, using psychedelics at best would be a fun experience for him. But of course I might be wrong.

Either way, it seems that you are a good friend

Good idea ! Thanks ! 

[caspex]

ngl, you know what this sounds like? 

A Christian itching to get his friend into Christianity because he sees potential in him. You could say something like, "Nah spirituality is much much more nuanced and all". But really it's the same structure of thought process as Christian Missionaries at a very surface level. "My worldview is great, and it will ofcourse help him out, so let me introduce it to him."

 Why tf would you want to get him into spirituality? Thing is, don't even label all of this as 'spirituality' and that you are into some 'spirituality' and he is not. Just drop that whole idea. 

You see him suffer sometime, you help him out. Maybe your interactions with him slowly build up to some sort awakening for him one day. Great for him. This is all about maturing oneself. If you think it's your duty, or maybe not even that, but your choice, to mature him/help him out, and your choice is yes, then it's still forcing. Legit just let wanting to mature him go. That's giving him true free will. If he sees you enough and one day asks "What's all this stuff you are into like self-enquiry whatever" then THAT is his 'free will' at play. 

Giving him small suggestions and cues here and there is still textbook manipulation. Ofcourse don't reinforce his own view onto him and act like an echo chamber. It's really in those moments when he might get the opportunity to open up as you speak your part. 

You just being his friend is giving him this opportunity(if you're, you know, 'sufficiently awake'). 

 

 

I had a very similar friend. He called spirituality st8 up bullshit. But also a very open-minded person(within the orange paradigm but he also had many yellow views of the world. He just had a big green shadow that prevented him to go full yellow). As I got more into spirituality and had awakenings, it reflected in my behavior. If he wasn't compatible with that, we would have grown apart. But that didn't happen. He also had awakenings(on weed), asked me about these realizations and all. He opened up to stage green and has much of his psyche in yellow too. And guess what I did? Nothing. I didn't try to get him into some "spirituality", no nothing, I didn't even care if he had potential or not. I just  challenged his views when his challenged mine, as happens in everyday relationships. 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Swarnim