How to Be More Engaged and Unspoil Oneself

[Waves]

The point of this thread is to share what has been on my mind for a couple of years, and to bounce off ideas. It's a topic that can go really wide and deep, for now I'm only getting a glimpse of how these aspects are all interconnected. Feel free to share your thoughts.

I'll paint a darker picture to give you some context: I'm spoiled, I'm currently disconnected from the feeling of having to earn results in life, I'm basically avoiding to hold my feet to the fire of reality. I'm disconnected from struggle, challenge, because I was so fortunate to have been given much of the material stuff I needed by my family and society, especially money. I know it's a high quality problem, most of my material needs have been met without me having to do anything. But for this reason I was left entitled, ungrateful, listless and to some degree unable to provide for myself.

I grew up somewhat disengaged, indifferent, cynic, retreated, immersed in video games and the internet, seeking constant stimulation from external sources, as a form of avoidance. Probably a learned behavior derived from unprocessed grief, victimhood and low self-esteem. It's been a couple of years since I developed an awareness of how this stimulation is filling me up to nausea and clouding my intuition. I've been improving and getting more clarity, but I often still feel stuck in these numbing and procrastination patterns.

What's missing is the fire coming from deep within, from my soul. The fire to go out there and being a powerful creator, being deeply passionate about life. The fire that comes from the deep awareness of how precious and what a gift this life is. I know the fire is there, its light shines through from time to time when I journal and reflect, but I keep suppressing it with daily unconscious patterns and external seeking.

 

I have been contemplating several questions over these years:

• How do I take life less for granted and more seriously?
• How do I unspoil myself and get humbled by life?
• How do I be more creative and engaged with life?
• How do I be more curious, proactive, disciplined, grateful, intentional, focused, giving, enthusiastic, present, more of a warrior?
• What is preventing me from engaging more with life?

These are some of the answers I thought of:

• Come up with an inspiring vision for my life (it's been in the makings for years, still struggling to connect with what I tangibly want)
• Connect with survival, master being an Achiever
• Deliberately challenge yourself and face your fears
• Be more observant and empathetic, zoom out of your limited perspective
• Develop gratitude and appreciation
• Contemplate your own death, become aware of the trajectory you're on
• Study passionate people and bring more uplifting people into your life
• Be more of a giver, be more of service, instead of constantly taking

I'm keen to read different perspectives on this, any insight or pointer is appreciated.

[aurum]

@Waves

I also grew up with significant economic privilege. I think you're not in as bad of a place as you think you are. The reality is that the majority of people in society feel the way you feel, regardless of how they grew up financially.

Yes, there may be some motivation towards action if you grew up poor in order to experience the opposite. But then what? That won't last forever. At some point, you have to go beyond being motivated purely by money anyway.

It also assumes that making money is what motivates us in the first place. Obviously there's some truth to this, in that money is directly linked to our survival in modern society, thus obtaining it can be motivating. But what are we really talking about? Some pieces of paper? Digits in a computer?

Money is made up. It can't possibly be your driving motivating force for life because it's not real. There's nothing there.

41 minutes ago, Waves said:

hese are some of the answers I thought of:

• Come up with an inspiring vision for my life (it's been in the makings for years, still struggling to connect with what I tangibly want)
• Connect with survival, master being an Achiever
• Deliberately challenge yourself and face your fears
• Be more observant and empathetic, zoom out of your limited perspective
• Develop gratitude and appreciation
• Contemplate your own death, become aware of the trajectory you're on
• Study passionate people and bring more uplifting people into your life
• Be more of a giver, be more of service, instead of constantly taking

These are all good things in general. I'd really recommend them to anyone.

Some other ideas that maybe useful:

• Travel to 3rd world countries and experience poverty there
• Decide to limit your expenses to only the minimum wage for a period of time
• Spend some time in the Peace Corps

All in all, realize your financial privilege is not a debilitation. Oh, you mean you're not motivated to participate in wage slavery? Color me shocked.

I think your lack of motivation has far more to do with society itself than your specific financial condition.

But you will have to explore. You will have to discover what you care about. So I'd use your situation to immerse yourself in as many experiences that seem interesting to you as possible.

[FlyingLotus]

On 8/13/2021 at 10:57 AM, aurum said:

Oh, you mean you're not motivated to participate in wage slavery? Color me shocked.

Lol ? 

 

On 8/13/2021 at 9:54 AM, Waves said:

Probably a learned behavior derived from unprocessed grief, victimhood and low self-esteem

     Aurum has good suggestions.

     Adding my two cents, I have no idea what your family life was like, so I’m making some huge assumptions that might be totally inaccurate.

     Neglect is pretty common is rich families.  Depression’s also a common symptom of neglect in childhood.  It sounds like your situation might have shades of depression.

     Depression isn’t just a feeling.  It’s a survival strategy people adopt in situations where their needs were being neglected.  This is common with wealthy, workaholic or even narcissistic parents (and non-wealthy parents of course).  As a kid it was useful, but it’s no longer serving you as an adult.

     Having a part of you that’s depressed and numbing out your joy doesn’t necessarily mean you have full blown depression.  Everybody has a depressed part, it just could be overactive.

     This video explains it really well:  Depression IFS Richard Schwartz.

 

Since you’re rich and can afford therapy and books I’m going to recommend some!

• IFS is awesome because you can talk to and heal the part of you that’s depressing your joy and passion, so that you feel alive again.  This book’s a good starter, it even has a section on the depressed part.  Freedom from Your Inner Critic: A Self-Therapy Approach by Jay Earley.  Derek Scott's youtube channel has good stuff too.
• Shadow work, a good therapist, IFS, Parts work are all good for talking to that depressed part and healing it so you can turbo charge your passion and joy.
• A personal trainer or fitness routine.  Good quality sleep.  A super healthy, organic, GMO free, whole foods, etc, etc, diet.
• Personal development retreats could be good.  Hoffman process is one.  There are others you can research.
• If you use gaming to an unhealthy degree the “Healthy Gamer gg” channel on youtube has excellent mental health content.  Actually, its content is generally awesome, not just for gamers.  They have a coaching program that you may want to sign up for.
• Leo’s Life Purpose Course and Book List are fantastic resources.  If the content in Leo’s course was featured on Mindvalley they’d charge 5x as much, although the videos would have koi ponds, trees, bird sounds and statues in the background .

 

Also, if you feel guilt or even shame about being wealthy you shouldn't, for a lot of reasons. 

1) Everybody has strengths and weaknesses.  You probably wouldn't feel guilty if you were awesome at math, or could jump unusually high.  The way I see it, God gives you gifts so you can use them to help others.  This video by Teal Swan articulates this well: humility.  Of course, misusing gifts to hurt people selfishly is destructive, but having gifts in and of themselves isn't necessarily destructive.  

2) The biggest OP starting point in life isn't extreme wealth, it's having wise, smart, healthy nurturing parents.  So the belief that you "had it so good" isn't entirely justified.   

     I overheard a famous celebrity (that everyone knows) complaining on the phone about their 11 year old son who was having a tantrum at the airport because the kid had to fly first class commercial instead of the usual private jet.  I honestly felt really bad for that kid and how he was being raised, despite how wealthy he was.  

     Personally, I don't envy the wealthy neglected kid who got a Maserati but no love.  I "envy" the people who had nurturing, wise, loving parents who encouraged their dreams, taught them discipline and self-efficacy, surrounded them with interesting, caring people, who contribute to the world and are passionately engage with life.  Even if that family has less financial means, they also have the inner resources to create a life of love and meaning, with a comfortable amount of financial security.   

     So don't feel guilty because you "had it so good."  Guilt and shame are wasted emotions and should be processed through personal development work.   Teal Swan also had good vids on guilt and shame.  

3) Value is relative.  Being rich isn't "bad."  Leo's episode on that is great.  

4) I know there's the ultimate metaphysical perspective that we're all one and love and there's no good and bad ultimately, but that's not the question you were asking so I didn't go into that ?.   To me, your question has more to do with relative truth than absolute truth.

Edited August 15, 2021 by FlyingLotus

[Bob Seeker]

Give all your money away. Then money will motivate you

[FlyingLotus]

3 minutes ago, Bob Seeker said:

Give all your money away. Then money will motivate you

Haha!!  

[Waves]

@aurum  Thanks for your thoughts, you certainly make valid points that helped me reframe the situation. I think it's about further recognizing my privilege and appreciating the luck I had to be born in such circumstances (without beating myself up for it), which also helped me realize that money and material possessions don't actually lead to happiness.

I'm comparing myself to others and I see that I'm not that hungry and motivated to work hard, and instead of seeing it as a weakness, I can realize that I have the opportunity to be driven by higher sources of motivation (creativity instead of reactivity). I'm paralyzed and overwhelmed by the amount of freedom I have, and resist the paradigm change from negative to positive motivation. 

Still, there is that other side of the coin of this privilege that left me somewhat unresourceful and unable to fend for myself. The solution seems to go back and plug those holes in my development and create a solid foundation (i.e. Achiever, stage Blue & Orange).

On 8/13/2021 at 5:57 PM, aurum said:

immerse yourself in as many experiences that seem interesting to you as possible

That's absolutely the plan, I moved to a larger city for this purpose. The thing is, the desire to engage and explore is often suppressed, but that's another story.

[Waves]

@FlyingLotus Wow, you went hard and holistic there  thanks a lot! You gave me a lot to research and think about.

I may have experienced some neglect, but indirectly, due to the loss of a parent. Still need to dig deep there. I'm currently working with the Sedona Method to release emotional baggage, but it's a long-term process and it needs to be attacked from various angles, as you suggested.

On 8/15/2021 at 1:18 AM, FlyingLotus said:

Having a part of you that’s depressed and numbing out your joy doesn’t necessarily mean you have full blown depression.  Everybody has a depressed part, it just could be overactive.

• IFS is awesome because you can talk to and heal the part of you that’s depressing your joy and passion, so that you feel alive again. 

This is a key insight for me, I'll start to pay more attention to how and when this depressed part manifests. I heard of IFS from multiple people recently, it may be worth to follow the synchronicity haha

On 8/15/2021 at 1:18 AM, FlyingLotus said:

“Healthy Gamer gg”

This guy is interesting, definitely curious to hear what he has to say. I'm currently considering to do a dopamine detox, because it's now clear that excessive stimulation from internet and social media is robbing me of energy, desire, motivation, and wasting my time.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Waves

[Marcel]

@Waves

Are you my long lost brother ??

I basically had the exact same upbringing.

I struggle with taking life serious some times, since all of my survival challenges were taken of since i was little.

I still don´t really feel the fire myself most of the time.

But i at least developed a shit tone of discipline and a solid, healthy routine by now.

So if i happen to find something i want to turn into a career for example, i am prepared to stick with it until the end.

Edited August 17, 2021 by Marcel

[hyruga]

You should read The Power of Now. But I mean read, not listen to the audio and multitask and do so many other things at the same time.

[Goldzilla]

Try this for 7 days. 

Disconnect the water supply and electricity in the house. 

Go and get water for yourself from foreign sources or public, and also for electricity. 

Who did not do this in his/her life, does not have the notion of what is trully important or not. 

A step further into the unspoil will be trying 7 days on eating food supplied by social centers or something similar. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Goldzilla

[FlyingLotus]

21 hours ago, Waves said:

Wow, you went hard and holistic there  thanks a lot! You gave me a lot to research and think about.

You're very welcome .  Tim Ferriss has an interview with Richard Schwartz where Schwartz takes does an IFS session on him.  It's a good listen you may want to check out.  

I've had problems with depression and being passionate.  Finding out that depression is an overactive survival strategy trying to be helpful, instead of just a feeling or a failure, was a game changer for my personal development.   

[Waves]

On 8/17/2021 at 0:29 PM, Marcel said:

i at least developed a shit tone of discipline and a solid, healthy routine by now.

Good for you! That's a great place to be in.

How did you go about it? Was/Is it motivated by external goals? For instance, a couple of years ago I had a strong discipline to study for exams and did well, but now that kind of motivation mainly coming from the fear of not passing exams is not enough anymore. It was powerful at the time, but it ran its course, and now I want to learn to be positively motivated.

On a side note, I listened to the newest Huberman Lab's podcast on addiction and there was an interesting insight: look at the jobs that present themselves to you and do them simply and honorably one day at the time, with humility. This mindset will certainly help me to build discipline back up. From that place of humility and taking one day/moment at the time I can get overthinking out of the picture and focus on simple execution and engagement.

3 hours ago, FlyingLotus said:

Tim Ferriss has an interview with Richard Schwartz

Timothy rarely disappoints, I will check it out, thanks

3 hours ago, FlyingLotus said:

Finding out that depression is an overactive survival strategy trying to be helpful, instead of just a feeling or a failure

I'm at a point where I can recognize being apathetic/depressed from time to time as normal. Still hard to accept it when it happens, but I'm sure I'll get there and beyond with IFS.

23 hours ago, hyruga said:

You should read The Power of Now

Funnily enough I never had a chance to read it. Might be a good time.

[Marcel]

@Waves

 

1 minute ago, Waves said:

Good for you! That's a great place to be in.

How did you go about it? Was/Is it motivated by external goals? For instance, a couple of years ago I had a strong discipline to study for exams and did well, but now that kind of motivation mainly coming from the fear of not passing exams is not enough anymore. It was powerful at the time, but it ran its course, and now I want to learn to be positively motivated.

On a side note, I listened to the newest Huberman Lab's podcast on addiction and there was an interesting insight: look at the jobs that present themselves to you and do them simply and honorably one day at the time, with humility. This mindset will certainly help me to build discipline back up. From that place of humility and taking one day/moment at the time I can get overthinking out of the picture and focus on simple execution and engagement.

I had to become disciplined, or rather i decided to become disciplined after i almost killed myself 2 years ago.

I just never wanted to be in that situation again. That was a pretty strong driver.

here is a quote that might be a game changer for you:

"Passion only comes after you have started and not before you have started something."

[Waves]

@Marcel Well, that must have been a compelling reason. 

On 8/18/2021 at 2:09 PM, Marcel said:

"Passion only comes after you have started and not before you have started something."

Yeah it's a good mindset shift not be looking passively, but to get involved with things and putting your passion into them actively.