If enlightenment is the truth, then why is it so damn difficult to get enlightened?

[Andrea Marchetti]

@Blackhawk It's all a funny thing. Your question, my effort to answer you, other people answering you. You say you want something that you don't want and we all try to give you something you don't want but you keep saying you want. Our answers are worst than your question. The most sensical answer would be "f*ck off!"  (please don't take it as an offence, I don't mean it)

[Bob Seeker]

I’m learning from this thread. I think plenty of is have a similar issue.?

 

[Nahm]

@Blackhawk

I always had a reason, as in justification for everything too. When I was five or six my mom thought for sure I’d be a lawyer. But I didn’t have a story about enlightenment at all. And I didn’t have a sour attitude. I was open minded, trying things before believing I knew what they were. 

[Blackhawk]

1 hour ago, Andrea Marchetti said:

What is all this glamor about enlightenment? Why do you even want it? Who would you be without wanting it?

Because I want to know the truth about reality. And because I want to stop suffering.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Andrea Marchetti]

@Blackhawk Trust me. You like suffering and you don't want the truth. The truth looks boring to you and suffering makes you feel like a hero on his journey. It's a huge joke once you realise it, and you'll realise it when you'll get too tired to keep going. You only played with yourself: by forgetting you're on stage the story feels much more real. All of what you're experiencing is what you want to experience. Just keep this in the back of your mind while you keep playing, you don't have to stop playing the games you like to play. I mean, if you pretend you don't know it then it's much more dramatic, more juicy. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by Andrea Marchetti

[Blackhawk]

3 minutes ago, Andrea Marchetti said:

@Blackhawk Trust me. You like suffering and you don't want the truth. The truth looks boring to you and suffering makes you feel like a hero on his journey. It's a huge joke once you realise it, and you'll realise it when you'll get too tired to keep going. You only played with yourself: by forgetting you're on stage the story feels much more real. All of what you're experiencing is what you want to experience. Just keep this in the back of your mind while you keep playing, you don't have to stop playing the games you like to play. I mean, if you pretend you don't know it then it's much more dramatic, more juicy. 

So you're denying the existence of suffering?

In that case you're also denying Buddha's teachings about suffering (dukkha).

[ZzzleepingBear]

@Blackhawk

You seem to suffer from overthinking things.

Here is some medicine for that. It's a good  4 min investment for a overthinking mind

[Andrea Marchetti]

24 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

So you're denying the existence of suffering?

In that case you're also denying Buddha's teachings about suffering (dukkha).

I'm not talking philosophically, I'm talking to you about You.

[Marcel]

@Blackhawk I Understand you so well.

3 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

I feel that if enlightenment is the truth, then it shouldn't be so damn difficult to achieve.

I know there's some teachers who say: "it's not difficult, it's the most simple and obvious thing". But no it's not. It seems to be impossible to attain. I think that maybe 1 or 2 of you who reply are enlightened. But probably none of you are enlightened, if enlightenment even exists. Before even Leo said that he isn't enlightened, but I don't know if he has recently became enlightened.

Especially for me it should be easy to attain because I wouldn't mind dying. I have nothing to live for. I'm already done with this life.

Some of you will say: "you have to spend billions of hours of hard work to achieve it".

There's several problems with that.

1. I don't have the energy for that.

2. I don't have the time for that.

3. I hate doing it.

4. I don't have the discipline for it.

5. I don't want to waste so much effort into something which might not even be true.

6. Psychedelics fucks up my psyche. They make me experience absolutely horrific things which traumatize me for years or possibly for life. I only get bad trips from everything. Even from weed I get bad "trips". I risk getting permanently mentally ill from psychedelics.

About half a year ago, i was depressed, suicidal, almost 40 kg overweight. no discipline, no purpose, i just wanted live to end.

I still cant really pinpoint what exactly changed, but the main thing was, i was sick and tired of living that way.

Nothing was fun, Nothing was interesting, everything just sucked and i convinced myself that this is the only way it could be.

Im not gonna go into the whole enlightenment part, but i will tell you that many of the points you made are self induced and changeable.

1. I don´t have the energy: I get it i have been there, but you have the energy, it will come if you start and stick with something, the energy often is not found before you start doing something,  i was  lying on the couch almost 24/7 watching TV and eating chips, but that is a straight up excuse in my opinion, im not judging you, i said the same thing about myself in the past.

2. I don´t have the time for that: You probably have, i had 24 hours a day, because i was unemployed and lived with my parents and i still somehow managed to trick myself into thinking that i do not have the time to do anything, although i watched TV all day.

4. I don´t have the discipline for it: Oh i love this point, discipline is a funny thing, it sucks to start developing it, but once you have it, it feels absolutely amazing and helps you to something productive everyday, also you´ll be fell better and more fulfilled, maybe start a workout routine or start walking outisde, any movement at all is very helpful.

5. I don´t want to waste so much effort into something which might not be true: Maybe it is not true, but the only way to know that is to find it out for yourself, also if your not into enlightenment work, i can highly recommend studying spiral dynamics, it helps a great deal with understanding yourself and others around you.

 

Welp i hope that was somewhat helpful, again i am not judging you at all, i completely understand where you are coming from.

[Blackhawk]

@ZzzleepingBear @Marcel Thanks.

14 minutes ago, Andrea Marchetti said:

I'm not talking philosophically, I'm talking to you about You.

It's provocative to tell someone who is suffering that he/she likes the suffering. For example imagine telling it to someone who has lost a child or something, you would never do it.

I guess the answer will be "yeah the ego doesn't like to hear it".

Sigh..

Edited August 9, 2021 by Blackhawk

[impulse9]

Your problem is you think enlightenment is an achievement.

[wildflower]

I'm going to say something that is completely against the zeitgeist of this forum and community, but enlightenment is completely orthognal to smoking DMT, experiencing God-conciousness so you can become a God in the material world and do whatever you want, it's literally he opposite.

It's understanding who you are is completely dependent and in relationship to the intentions, actions, behaviors and mindfullness you actualize in everyday life, and that ultimately all selfish actions lead to suffering, or negative states of conciousness. It's about embodying and living in line with the fundamental laws and truths of reality like karma and emptiness (sunyata).

For an enlightened person this is easy and effortless, for an unenlightened person it's the hardest thing in the world.

[Blackhawk]

14 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

Your problem is you think enlightenment is an achievement.

No, I guess I think it probably isn't. But how else could I phrase it?

I'm currently reading this book, and I like it: https://www.perfectbrilliantstillness.org/book/

[impulse9]

A master came by when a novice was meditating. He asked the student, "what are you doing?" The novice replied, "I am meditating in order that I become a Buddha". The master picked up a brick that was lying on the floor, sat down and started rubbing it with a piece of cloth. Seeing this, the novice got curious and inquired the master about it. "What are you doing?" he said. "I am polishing this brick in order that it becomes a mirror", the master replied. The novice, confused, responded instantly. "By no amount of polishing will you turn this brick into a mirror!" The master, smiling, responded "by no amount of meditation will you become a Buddha."

This is a famous koan that touches on this issue. You need let go of your desires, even the desires about letting go of your desires, and only then can you understand the truth. No amount of doing, or not doing will get you enlightened, that's what makes it a mindfuck and you have to appreciate this fact rather than oppose it.

[Byun Sean]

go work on other areas of your life you clearly are not ready for enlightenment. 

 

Doing spiritual work is counterproductive if you don't have a proper physical life which is enjoyable and meets your needs to fall back on.

[Blackhawk]

5 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

You need let go of your desires, even the desires about letting go of your desires, and only then can you understand the truth. No amount of doing, or not doing will get you enlightened, that's what makes it a mindfuck and you have to appreciate this fact rather than oppose it.

In other words: it's impossible.

1 minute ago, Byun Sean said:

go work on other areas of your life you clearly are not ready for enlightenment. 

 

Doing spiritual work is counterproductive if you don't have a proper physical life which is enjoyable and meets your needs to fall back on.

I wish I could do that, but I can't.

[impulse9]

9 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

In other words: it's impossible.

It's impossible to the ego. But you, the real you, the unbounded you - you're perfectly capable of it. In fact you are it, and there's nothing to get.

Edited August 9, 2021 by impulse9

[Blackhawk]

2 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

It's impossible to the ego. But you, the real you, the unbounded you - you're perfectly capable of it. In fact you are it, and there's nothing to get.

So magically somehow my real Me is supposed to do it?

Ok, 1 sec.. let the real Me somehow do it..

Nope, nothing happened.

[Raptorsin7]

@Blackhawk Have you tried working with low doses of psychs? Or finding a therapist who understands psychs?

Psychs have been the single most valuable tool for me. A lot of these concepts that don't resonate or click, have the potential to be realized and understood on a sufficient dose of psychs.

You're too stuck in your own mind. Notice how you just shut down everyone and insist you're right about your own perspective. Something needs to change to adjust your thought process

[impulse9]

You know when a master sees a person all they see is Shiva doing some form of magical dancing around, that's why they usually chuckle, they find it amusing. So you're like that, you're this ego pretending to be very serious about enlightenment, jumping around and doing all these complex dance moves, because you think something, somewhere, somehow is going to enlighten you and then you'll be fine. The funny thing about this is that you can always just stop doing the dance and see, hey, here it is. Here is enlightenment. Here is what I've been searching for. 

 

And I'm not above this. I have the exact same problems. We all do. We're all dancing around, huffing and puffing for no reason whatsoever. It's funny.