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RedLine

Spiral Dynamics and China society

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Posted (edited)

What is the state of China society? are they premodern/bue?

Apparently they are very identify with their nation/community (like premodern Europe for example) but at the same time, they show some very individualistc behaviour (modern) sometimes

 

it does not fix very well in the deveoloment maps

 

 

Edited by RedLine

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   That's more like the bystander effect, but China has it much worse. They did a social experiment there, and if you are attacked, or are being kidnapped in daylight, all of them just watch on. This is deeply ingrained in their culture. They even treat each other worse than foriegners who live there.

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10 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Husseinisdoingfine

   Ah yes I watch some of his videos. Good perspective on China.

So this don´t give a shit about other people stuff is red stage maybe? But the social organization is super blue

 

What I think is Spiral Dnynamis is garbage. China society debunks spiral dynamics. 

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@RedLine

6 hours ago, RedLine said:

So this don´t give a shit about other people stuff is red stage maybe? But the social organization is super blue

 

What I think is Spiral Dnynamis is garbage. China society debunks spiral dynamics. 

   It's more nationalistic, with a bit of stage red. Keep in mind that Spiral Dynamics modals for developments of values a society keeps and changes to. However, the modal doesn't cover more than the developments of values, like how aliens might think or behave towards humans, or the consciousness of animals. Or geographies. Spiral dynamics only modals for changes of values in a group. It's when Ken Wilber studied it and combined other modals to it, producing Integral theory, that we now have cognitive development, moral development, other lines of development, and states of consciousness that we now could more accurately study a culture, group or society's development of values, but we now could use integral theory to map out not just cultures, but individuals and other sentient entities as well.

   For example, only using spiral dynamics to understand the bystander effect in that Chinese store, and how the other Chinese employeees reacted to a chinese man having a heart attack, we could only assume that the work sub culture there, and the work culture of the entire business industry that the store belongs to, has values that are both a little bit of red(dominance, power, manipulation, fame, self preservation...) and largely blue (Nationalism, patriotism, religion, bureaucracy, community, loyalty to one's group, collectivism to a smaller group). However, this still does not map out other factors involved, but only maps out the potential values being fulfilled in that situation, but does not cover the level of compassion or concern involved.

   Using Ken Wilber's modal, we could map out far more factors other than values that could come together to  contribute to this situation. For example, we could focus on just the cashier, and say that her state of consciousness is such that it is limited to that of a robotic cashier worker, that she is under a worker's state of consciousness, and in the video you could see some self restraint of maintaining that role. From seeing how the cashier was resisting changing her state to a more emotional state, another state typical of helping others, we could then say that her moral development(also called circle of concern as well) is limited to only first herself, and to her group she is working under, which is very reflective of the conformity of stage blue collectivism, which is vastly different from stage green's circle of concern. Next, we could say that her cognitive development, also lines of thinking or thinking capacity, could also similarly be as low as her moral development. Her cognition could also be high as well, like IQ with concern to language, mathematical, logical intelligence or other types of intelligence, but other lines of development could still be low. CBT, Psychoanalytic, other types of cognition like cognitive dissonance and personality types, is also included in assessing a group or individual's cognitive development. On to other lines of development, there we start seeing how complex this situation really is, as most other factors spring from here, similar to domains of life. If we charted her wheel of life here, we could see how in each area there will be similarities and differences. Her career life might be high, but her relationship domain could be low, and say she suffered from trauma in her adolescence, which now negatively impacts her relationship outside the family, which also ties in with moral and cognitive development. Personality types , genetics and brain chemistry also factor in as well. All this can as accurately as possible, assess why she behaved the way she behaved in this situation. However, as complex as this modal of Ken Wilber is, it still might be wrong as well.

   However, you could keep on researching various modals, and come across say Carl Jung theory on the collective shadow, or Ego development, or modals about reading body language and astrology, and do independent analysis about this situation to each modal separately, and later combine that on top of Ken Wilber's Integral theory and Spiral Dynamics modal, and end up with a super complex level of analysis that you start sounding like a super matrix A.I and predict cultures to the 9,000 degree and other people's destinies and so on, A.K.A Spiral wizardry.       

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On 8/1/2021 at 10:27 AM, RedLine said:

So this don´t give a shit about other people stuff is red stage maybe? But the social organization is super blue

 

What I think is Spiral Dnynamis is garbage. China society debunks spiral dynamics. 

Also keep in mind that China is a society with 1.4 billion people (nearly a fifth of the world's population), so it's quite natural that in such a large society that development is going to be spread across a wide spectrum.

So it's not at all unexpected that Purple, Red, Blue, and Orange would all be represented in such a large sampling of the human population.


"The mind is inherently embodied.
Thought is mostly unconscious.
Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical." - George Lakoff

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The video might be a good example of Stage Orange Selfishness. If it was stage red, people would actually care and bring that guy to a hospital. This man wasn't in a war with somebody.

I've seen better examples of humanity in stage purple countries. 

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