Hardkill

Increase in vaccine coercion

443 posts in this topic

20 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

That's your biases.

When you decide a strategy for a GLOBAL PANDEMIC, one or two weak google searches aren't going to cut it.

Let the specialists decide, stop pretending you know what the fuck you are talking about.

I made NO assertion that I know what I'm talking about. I've listened to many experts debate this, and wanted to open an evidence-based discussion about it here. One or two weak Google searches won't even showcase these discussions. Also, attacking someone's character isn't a defence against their argument. 

Dr Pierre Kory (FLCCC) pioneered the current protocol for Covid-19 care at the very start of this pandemic. I am literally leaving it to the specialists and putting my trust in those that appear to gain nothing from telling their side of the story. If you care to put your own biases aside and have a nuanced conversation about this, go and listen to his thoughts on Ivermectin and decide for yourself. I'm not here to influence anyone or spread biased misinformation, rather to point people to these ideas so they can decide for themselves.

 

Assumptions aside, the most important issue here is a potential viable option for eradicating the virus. Anyone care to focus on that?

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5 minutes ago, ceromonies said:

Assumptions aside, the most important issue here is a potential viable option for eradicating the virus. Anyone care to focus on that?

Here in Brazil, the psychopath president listened to delusional "specialists", instead of buying the vaccine, he decided to bet on hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, and ivermectin, worked day and night to spread this "prevention kit".

The result was: people questioning vaccines, taking this "prevention kit" and dying suffocated in hospitals.

The pandemic here is out of control due to betting on ivermectin, with more than 550.000 dead and counting. 

Just take the damn vaccine.

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13 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

If you're really as threat-sensitive and sober, forward-thinking of an individual as you proport to be, imagine how bad this pandemic could get if a new super-lethal mutant gets spawned. Imagine living in that world while knowing that it could've all been avoided if you weren't so afraid of needles. Talk about a loss of human rights. This isn't speculative fearmongering. This is the reality of viruses, and it's time to wake up.

Where do you get the idea that a super-lethal mutant has more chance to get spawned in a non vaccinated person vs vaccinated ? I can see arguments on both sides here. 

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Other restrictions to freedom in society: murder banned, rape banned, smoking in a public place banned, bribing banned, assaulting someone banned, owning a gun banned (in the UK)...

The fallacy of libertarians is their belief that freedom always equals good. 

In almost all jurisdictions you will either be required to get a vaccine or at the very least you will lose certain freedoms and privileges by choosing to not get vaccinated. 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Recursoinominado said:

Let the specialists decide, stop pretending you know what the fuck you are talking about.

Exactly the kind of mindset that leads people into years of pain, misery and general suffering when they decide that the psychiatrists opinion is worth more than common sense and end up horribly addicted to benzos. Blind faith in authority is extremely stupid. And have you even considered the opinion of the experts that claim the opposite to what the media is feeding you with? You dont trust experts, you trust the media.

Edited by impulse9

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26 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

Exactly the kind of mindset that leads people into years of pain, misery and general suffering when they decide that the psychiatrists opinion is worth more than common sense and end up horribly addicted to benzos. Blind faith in authority is extremely stupid. And have you even considered the opinion of the experts that claim the opposite to what the media is feeding you with? You dont trust experts, you trust the media.

Blindly dismissing expert's opinions is just as bad and this is exactly the problem here.

People are so focusing in seem WOKE and against "mainstream thinking" that they make the epidemiologic mistake of believing nothing good comes from authorities or the media.

This isn't your everyday "take your medicines" advice, this is a global pandemic, a once-in-lifetime crisis, and going down into conspiracy rabbit holes are not the right action, the right action is to sober the fuck up and listen to the experts, essential oils and sunlight will not solve anything. 

None of you here knows more than the government pandemic experts, stop pretending you do.

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I never said you should blindly dismiss anything. This is a complex, nuanced problem and should be interpreted exactly as such. The problem with you is that you project the hardline anti-vaxx stance onto anyone who even remotely questions the current state of affairs.

You claim experts are infallible. I'm an expert in my own field. I can't tell you how many bullshitters pass as experts. Stop pretending like this is some trivial issue where you're the one who gets to decide what I put into my body and then claim some kind of moral high ground. And let me reiterate that what you're claiming is against basic human rights. Nobody can force a medical procedure onto you unwilling, so stop with this militant attitude. Want people to get vaccinated? Maybe try a loving and gentle approach instead of moralizing and claiming people are stupid for thinking for themselves. That might actually work. What you're doing right now has the exact opposite effect, namely I'm even more convinced that I won't take it, ever.

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@Recursoinominado Further proof you lack nuance. Everything is black and white for you. 

It's possible to want to wear a seatbelt, understand seatbelts save lives, want others to wear seatbelts.. and STILL not want seatbelt wearing to be legally mandated.. And the fact that someone is against seatbelt mandates, does not make them 'anti-seatbelt'. 


"I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people."

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@Recursoinominado lol. You are too dumb to have slightly nuanced position, huh?

Your approach of attacking and calling people stupid is unproductive and makes the situation worse. 

Most people don't have a problem with the vaccine itself, a tiny percentage is actually antivax.

People do not trust authority, do not trust government and don't want them to invade their body and private choices.

Do you have any emphaty or understanding as to why that might be?

If you can't figure it out, then you are a lost case.

As for @Leo Gura, that mindset is a direct insurance that you'll never solve your chronic health issues.

With that kind of mindset, naturopaths could be prohibited from working, herbs should be outlawed, talking about a natural diet of fresh foods is for conspiracy theorist.

You speak with the certainty of a frugivore that decides to eat a diet of just dead animals. Spitting in nature's face, spitting in god's face.

You are never going to outsmart nature. Unfortunately, you will pay the price for your arrogance.

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@Recursoinominado Maybe if you had worked on some actual scientific research in your life you would appreciate just how much of it is bullshit, random walks and best guesses. It's easy to pretend the experts know it all, especially if you lack expertise in some scientific field yourself. They don't know it all and a lot of the time the experts are simply wrong, and their opinions are invalidated over time. Which is why you should always use your best judgment, and not trust anyone simply on faith, not even those that claim the highest authority. My scientific background gives me a lot of insight into how things work in the real life. Those same experts you trust have colleagues that disagree with them, but you never hear about them in the news, because like you, the media likes to play the game where reality is black and white and there's no grays in between. Only one sided opinions fly, everyone else is labelled various names and ostracized.

Take the vaccine if you feel that is the right course of action, I will not stand in your way or claim that your choice is wrong. But I expect the same from you. Don't call people stupid and claim a moral high ground because you think you're justified to make choices for other people. I have my reasons for my own choices, and many others as well. If I respect your choice, then you should also respect mine. If your best shot at convincing others is shit slinging in the form of low intelligence memes, then maybe you're the one who needs to rethink your approach. Because this won't get you anywhere, you're just gonna end up frustrated and angry.

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1 hour ago, knakoo said:

Where do you get the idea that a super-lethal mutant has more chance to get spawned in a non vaccinated person vs vaccinated ? I can see arguments on both sides here. 

We're dealing with a population of individuals, not just one individual. Less vaccinations -> less immune people -> more people infected -> more virus replications -> more mutations.


To balance beauty and complexity so perfectly is a divine mystery.

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12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

We're dealing with a population of individuals, not just one individual. Less vaccinations -> less immune people -> more people infected -> more virus replications -> more mutations.

Yes sure, but you can also argue that vaccins increase the risk of dangerous variants developing. 

https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/covid-transmission-vaccinated-people-risk-of-resistant-variant-2021-7

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I am reading all these posts here and if a passerby would read this forum, he/she would say, wow what a low consciousnesses here. I am amazed how many people who probably never worked in a lab and are so knowledgeable or even aggressive. How many worked with viruses or even wore a negative pressure suit, Ia m sure most dont even know what it is and please dont google, its irreverent.

I was also severely surprised @Leo Gura with all my deepest respect to him, he acted so volatile as if perhaps either youtube or other social media he is on, told him not to question anything about vaccinations, as believe it or not some other social media did receive such messages. Of course this is just my theory and I hope its not a conspiracy theory. But people, we have to give each other respect and not solely jump to conclusions.

In general all sciences require debates and take form someone who did spend years on science, in science its always false until proven otherwise with experiments challenging the theory. You never make anything black and white in science, thats only reserved for politics.

And finally, whats the big deal to have an open mind, its not the end of the world if you listen or discuss intelligently with opposing ideas, remember you can always learn something from someone, having such mentality that your way is the highway is not going anywhere, well of course unless you benefit from it. And I will share my experience. I come from a very religious background and growing up I never accepted gay people, but learning how to unwind your biases, not an easy thing to do, I now understand all people. I am not gay in any way or form or shape, but I have a very close friend who is female gay and I do keep in touch with other individuals who are. I listen to them, they all have some personal story and instead of what even my modern religious leaders, at best call it a disease, I learned that its people's personal choice and I respect that. And I know I have also personal life choices which I made, which I would expect others to respect it, oh and one of them is that i am not taking this vax. :)

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1 hour ago, knakoo said:

Yes sure, but you can also argue that vaccins increase the risk of dangerous variants developing. 

https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/covid-transmission-vaccinated-people-risk-of-resistant-variant-2021-7

If you want to stop the virus from mutating, you need to stop it from replicating, and vaccinations is by far the most effective solution for this. Resistant variants are only a problem because we're sloppily vaccinating a few and letting it spread freely through the rest of the population.


To balance beauty and complexity so perfectly is a divine mystery.

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Posted (edited)

@lmfao My Fi keeps thinking of families losing loved ones, poor people stuck without vaccines dying in third world countries, the economy, ect.  Or even people here not getting it, then coming over here, sick, and telling us about it; possibly dying from it or suffering complications.

"I don't want you to die or spread a disease to innocent people."

"Coercive meanie!!"

"o.O"

I'm kind of an imp sometimes.  If someone mentions an action, it's right there to try it and see how it goes.  Fi is more objective than it looks quite often; Fi-Ne is naturally coercive.  I like to try different things, but it's still a work in progress - the underlying motivation is good - keep people safe and help move things back towards a state of equilibrium - the virus has disrupted everything for everyone and if I can help to change things for the better, I will do that.  But I'm just one person.  Everyone has to work together on this.

I mean, there is a virus going around and people are like... "I'm being coerced into taking a vaccine!"
What kind of world would we be living in if people didn't do this?  It would be one where people just don't care, which is fine in small doses, but across an entire population that's no good.  It just makes sense that during a pandemic, if there is a vaccine, people would be trying to convince everyone to get it.  So we can stay safe and resume our lives as best as possible.

I "feel" like people don't think about the headspace others would have to be in, and how society would operate, if humans didn't do these common sense things.

The fact that people are trying to convince anti-vaxxers to get this shot is out of care.  It is a healthy reaction imo.

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Edited by Loba

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Vaccines are our best bet right now if we want this nightmare to end in the near future, and everyone has to do it, like them or not.

Even if the "conspiracy talk" has some truth in it, it is something NONE of us can do anything about it, debates about "taking vaccines or not" are pointless.

There is a good chance that this virus is a natural occurrence, people are trying their best to solve this mess, others are doing their thing to earn some good money with it and there is nothing essentially wrong with it. There is a problem (virus), a solution (vaccine), and people selling and buying. Pretty simple. 

"But i don't trust government or mainstream media". So, you cry baby, what the fuck is your option here? You can take the vaccine and shut up or you can risk your life and everyone's life for some ignorant, selfish reaction to a serious situation.

You don't have to like, just take your damn vaccine and shut up about it.

People are overly overestimating their grasp on reality, no matter how many google searches you do, you will NEVER come close to 1% of what's going on in the world, just accept and live your life.

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Posted (edited)

Doesn't take much to show your true colors @Recursoinominado. And here I was thinking you're even remotely capable of being respectful towards another human being. My option is to ignore your opinion and not take the vaccine.

Edited by impulse9

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5 hours ago, impulse9 said:

My option is to ignore your opinion and not take the vaccine.

And that's why we are fucked.

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