How to Address Stage Orange Coopting Green

[bmcnicho]

I’ve noticed a pattern in recent years that as certain aspects of Stage Green have been rising in prominence, Stage Orange has been quick to try to co-opt it for its own purposes.  The most consequential example is when corporatist politicians use progressive rhetoric to gain votes with no intention of delivering.  More blatant is when ads for low consciousness products do this.  I’d think it would be obvious to people how disingenuous this is, but it must work because they keep doing it.

It’s disappointing to see how easily Stage Green language and aesthetics can be made non-threatening to the Stage Orange establishment by being used by people who share none of its fundamental values.  Like the image of progressivism can be turned into just another product to be marketed.

I’m also disappointed by how ineffective most activism and protest has been, with the fight for gay marriage being the prominent exception.  But for the last 20 years, almost no progress has been made on the climate crisis, despite how important and urgent it is.  I believe most members of these movements are sincere, but I can’t help but think that the people leading them kind of know that it’s an empty virtue signal.  The term “controlled opposition” sounds like a conspiracy theory, but sometimes it seems like an apt descriptor

I’m considering if this is just part of the process of evolution and if this sort of thing has happened with previous stages.  An example could be the mostly Stage Red Roman Empire adopting Stage Blue Christianity as its official religion.  Maybe something similar happened with Christianity pretending to tolerate Stage Orange European Enlightenment values

In conclusion, I’m wondering if to achieve true Stage Green, there needs to be a complete collapse of the current system and if so would it be something that humans could survive?

[Thought Art]

No, I don't think so. Culture will grow slowly and through a non-linear progression. Society will not collapse it will adapt. 

The climate crises is so tied to survival in general even stage green can't avoid it entirely. These problems exist and transcend what spiral dynamics can explain I think as well. 

There has been a lot of progress in most areas around the world through stage green protest, law changes etc. 

We are evolving everyday, slowly yet surely I think. Some more than others. 

 

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, bmcnicho said:

I’m wondering if to achieve true Stage Green, there needs to be a complete collapse of the current system and if so would it be something that humans could survive?

What you're seeing all over the news IS the process by which true stage Green gets realized. You're just too in-the-thick-of-it to see it. It's a convoluted decade's-long process.

And corporations pandering to Green IS part of how we get true Green. You should be happy that corporations are pandering because that already means they see that in order to survive they must conform to Green values, at least in name.

Corporations will not turn Green overnight. They will gradually evolve along with the rest of culture. As more people go Green, corps will follow the people because that's where the money will be.

[Joel3102]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Corporations will not turn Green overnight. They will gradually evolve along with the rest of culture. As more people go Green, corps will follow the people because that's where the money will be.

The far left and the right hate the modern corporate co-opting of green, for different reasons. However, “woke” capitalism is a good thing overall, as it helps to mainstream LGTBT and minorities in pop culture 

[Leo Gura]

What both sides aren't realizing is that corporations themselves are actually evolving into Green. Not overnight, but it is happening.

[Thought Art]

I guess, don't let the late stage orange scare you as it bring in new stage green lol

[Harlen Kelly]

1 hour ago, Joel3102 said:

The far left

The far left in the US is the center left in Europe. Wanting to implement universal healthcare and have fair treatment of minorities and disenfranchised people is not far left. 

And that's what the ''far left'' is advocating for in the US. 

[Woke456]

1 hour ago, Harlen Kelly said:

and have fair treatment of minorities and disenfranchised people is not far left.

That's defamation when you accuse a whole country of treating minorities unfairly.  Exaggerating racisim is racist.

[Opo]

20 minutes ago, Woke456 said:

That's defamation when you accuse a whole country of treating minorities unfairly. 

He never said that the whole country is treating minorities unfairly. 

20 minutes ago, Woke456 said:

Exaggerating racisim is racist.

Lmao ??

To elaborate on Harlens original point. One of the ways that minorities are treated unfairly is the justice system. For an example whites and blacks smoke weed at roughly the same rate but black people are prosecuted 4 times more than white people. 

[Woke456]

@Opo

25 minutes ago, Opo said:

One of the ways that minorities are treated unfairly is the justice system. For an example whites and blacks smoke weed at roughly the same rate but black people are prosecuted 4 times more than white people. 

That doesn't prove anything.  Black people are 4x more likely to commit homicide so getting busted for weed comes with having more disagreeable people in your racial category.  It has literally nothing to do with prejudice.

[Opo]

9 minutes ago, Woke456 said:

@Opo

That doesn't prove anything.  Black people are 4x more likely to commit homicide so getting busted for weed comes with having more disagreeable people in your racial category.  It has literally nothing to do with prejudice.

So are you saying that white and black people commit the same amount of homicides but black people are arrested 4 times more often? 

What do you mean by disagreeable? 

[Harlen Kelly]

2 hours ago, Woke456 said:

Exaggerating racisim is racist.

That's a brain-dead, imbecilic conservative talking point to ignore the real and tangible mistreatments and injustices committed against minorities and other disenfranchised groups. 

1 hour ago, Woke456 said:

@Opo

That doesn't prove anything.  Black people are 4x more likely to commit homicide so getting busted for weed comes with having more disagreeable people in your racial category.  It has literally nothing to do with prejudice.

That is factually incorrect. 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Opo]

2 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

That is factually incorrect. 

Can't believe you never heard the famous "13/50" line. 

It's not that it's not factually true it's that it's caused by the environment and not the silly skin tone. 

[Harlen Kelly]

47 minutes ago, Opo said:

Can't believe you never heard the famous "13/50" line. 

It's not that it's not factually true it's that it's caused by the environment and not the silly skin tone. 

13/50 does not equal 4x. They do commit more crime, that's a fact but not at that rate. 

If there are 100 people living in a piece of land and the majority ( let's say 80% ) pushes the minority for 100s of years to live under poor socio-economic circumstances that lead to criminal behavior (by means of slavery, segregation, jim crow, the war on drugs etc..), you are supposed to fix the underlying structures and systems that created those socio-economic circumstances in the first place instead of blaming the minority that the majority systemically subjugated and oppressed for hundreds of years. 

This is an incredibly simple concept to grasp but the people that have been punked by right wing propaganda close their minds to such a simple concept because they frankly do not give two FFs about the people suffering injustices, their level of psychological development does not allow them to even consider improving the lives of the disenfranchised, that includes minorities, LGBT people, the poor, etc..

Edited July 31, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Opo]

57 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

13/50 does not equal 4x. They do commit more crime, that's a fact but not at that rate. 

Do the math, it's more than 4x.

58 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

This is an incredibly simple concept to grasp but the people that have been punked by right wing propaganda close their minds to such a simple concept because they frankly do not give two FFs about the people suffering injustices, their level of psychological development does not allow them to even consider improving the lives of the disenfranchised, that includes minorities, LGBT people, the poor, etc..

It's simple to you. 

They do try to help but they don't see the big picture so their solution are something like get a job. 

[Harlen Kelly]

21 minutes ago, Opo said:

Do the math, it's more than 4x.

1 hour ago, Harlen Kelly said:

Not even close. 

Here is a detailed homicide report from the FBI 2019: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

2018 homicide report: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

Edited August 1, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Opo]

12 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

Not even close. 

Here is a detailed report from the FBI 2019: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

2018 Report: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-6.xls

There are 5-6 times more white people... 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Opo

[Danioover9000]

   By the green individual not making a shadow out of orange, and integrating values and skills found in orange.

[bmcnicho]

I’m disappointed that this thread turned into a silly racial debate.  My original post was about a specific obstacle to the development of Stage Green, I never mentioned race

@Leo Gura Thanks for pushing back on my pessimism a bit.  My concern is the insidious nature of it, that fake green could become an obstacle to true green.  That the energy behind these movements could become sanitized to the point that it limits the pathways forward.  But I suppose this is all part of the process  

[Joel3102]

10 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

The far left in the US is the center left in Europe. Wanting to implement universal healthcare and have fair treatment of minorities and disenfranchised people is not far left. 

And that's what the ''far left'' is advocating for in the US. 

The leftists on twitter and YouTube who rail against woke corporations are mostly far left socialists and tankies. Your average centre left person who wants universal healthcare aren’t the ones railing against this all day....