Preety_India

Leo's views on dating.

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Posted (edited)

This is about @Leo Gura 's views on dating.

 It took me a while to come to this. An uncomfortable and difficult topic. But I felt I needed to open up about this.

Personally nothing against Leo at all. In fact there will never be a reason to be against him.

I like watching his videos. His enlightenment and actualization stuff. It's awesome and has been very inspiring. Leo is the reason why I feel motivated.

I hope I'm allowed to have a criticism of Leo. If not the mod can lock this thread and It won't matter.

The problem area for me with Leo is his dating stuff. To be very honest many people have told me the same thing along the lines of - listen to Leo but not when it comes to dating.

I have religiously read every comment that Leo makes, I deeply respect him, yet it hurts every time I read his comment in the dating section and it is always a bit biased against women and lacking the female Perspective, as though the female perspective is absent. It seems Leo focuses more on males because his audience is mostly that and I rarely see him correcting males who have the standard stereotyped bro biased opinions. I like how he has evolved over time and objected to red pill content on this forum yet there's seems to be so much that needs to come to a point of balance especially in Leo's perspectives. Leo is crystal clear on the male version of intimacy but he fails to include the female version or does not state it enough. I would have appreciated a more nuanced neutral approach from him seeing the level of development and growth and inner work he has put in over the years, it's a natural expectation that his views in this area would be a bit more refined than the general crowd. However I see a characteristically strange emptiness when it comes to this area and more alignment with the pick up way of thinking about women, I'm not against it but it leaves me with a sour taste in the mouth because often times that's not how the female mind is thinking which is frequently represented in the posts that so many women including me have made on this forum, it feels like Leo leaves out an entire chunk of the female Perspective and becomes very dismissive of it. This strays away from what we would consider a wholesome normal healthy balanced  perspective to female sexuality. It's hard to pinpoint every little thing he says and I do understand that sometimes there are nuggets of truth in certain things he says yet overall his opinions are largely lacking and tailored to suit the male crowd better. I don't think it would be too much to expect that Leo try to make fine tuned enhancements to the way he approaches things when it comes to dating and not rely heavily and excessively on the pua model that he has ingrained along the way. I understand that he wants to be able to relate to his audience yet much is left to be desired on a wholesome level..

I hope I'm not banned for this.

Thanks for reading. 

People can leave in their comments as to how they feel about Leo's opinions on the dating section. But I won't be replying to them since it would be unnecessarily drawn out. Leaving opinions alone would be more than enough I guess.

If Leo responds to this, I won't reply to Leo's comments because I don't want a fierce debate with him. 

One thing that I admire about Leo is his intense level of loving maturity, I'm yet to come across someone like that.

 

 

Edited by Preety_India

 INTP loner... .shy girl.. 

Quick access to journal entries

 

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most of his dating advice are from the male agenda perspective.

 

The women's survival agenda will be different. 

Most guys he's giving advice to just want to know how to get laid. That is their need and their agenda.

 

The extent they include the woman's agenda in practice depends on how developed and conscious the guy is.

 

Thats why it's equally important for a woman to personally develop herself and set strong healthy boundaries so you screen for low consciousness 

guys who will treat you like crap.

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@Preety_India

I’ve had similar thoughts. Perhaps he has his reasons for why he does what he does. Perhaps he is actually 15 steps ahead of us. Or maybe it is something for him to still work on. I don’t know.

Regardless, some of the things he has said about dating do reflect a heavy bias in my opinion. Possibly misogynistic or even misanthropic. And I think the culture on this forum reflects it.


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@Preety_India I don't think you're super far off base with your assessment.

His dating advice seems aimed at short term hookups rather than finding fulfilling long term relationships. 

I've had plenty of casual sex, two week flings, months long relationships, years long relationships, and his advice seems to lack nuance and he paints with very broad stokes. 

I've had 'success' with many different strategies, and with no strategy.. sometimes you just get lucky.

If all you're trying to do is get laid, a prostitute is like a sure fire bet, but 'just hire a hooker' is horrible dating advice. 


"I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people."

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Posted (edited)

34 minutes ago, aurum said:

Regardless, some of the things he has said about dating do reflect a heavy bias in my opinion. Possibly misogynistic or even misanthropic. 

Give a concrete example of something you considered misogynistic..

Edited by Harlen Kelly

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Look, we gotta stop expecting Leo to be God (pun intended ;)). Of course he isn't going to be completely holistic in every take he has, and is going to have blind spots and certain biases about things.

You have to remember he is just another person that is coming at things from his own life experience, and his perspective will be undoubtedly intertwined with that to some level.

If you're familiar with his story he was sort of a nerd/incel, and then did a huge amount of work and compensation to get himself out of that and grow a bunch (kudos btw). The sort of requirements for that accomplishment are going to lean quite heavily towards a male agenda, it's just the nature of things.

It's a fair criticism but remember, this work isn't really about him.

 


"Your mind can never change, unless you ask it to. Lovingly rearrange, the thoughts that make you blue."

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6 minutes ago, Roy said:

Look, we gotta stop expecting Leo to be God (pun intended ;)). Of course he isn't going to be completely holistic in every take he has, and is going to have blind spots and certain biases about things.

You have to remember he is just another person that is coming at things from his own life experience, and his perspective will be undoubtedly intertwined with that to some level.

If you're familiar with his story he was sort of a nerd/incel, and then did a huge amount of work and compensation to get himself out of that and grow a bunch (kudos btw). The sort of requirements for that accomplishment are going to lean quite heavily towards a male agenda, it's just the nature of things.

It's a fair criticism but remember, this work isn't really about him.

 

Despite what I wrote above, I agree with this as well. 


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@Roy yeah, I think we all get that. This isn't Leo bashing. He does present his views on dating/pick up as an Authority here, and in his Actualized videos on the subject, and so I don't see a problem with this type of critique. 

It's a little awkward to do it here, since it's his forum, but it wouldn't seem so controversial if this same thread appeared on some other forum, or if Leo wasn't the subject in question.  It's a worthwhile topic.

Of course we value Leo's views and insights or none of us would be here. 


"I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people."

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Posted (edited)

I think it's good to discuss his perspectives on here due to the fact that many will just take his perspective as the truth. Personally, I have found a lot of good quality stuff within his dating stuff, but it depends where you come at it from. It's actually hard for me to consider just having casual sex, but maybe it would grow me. I think there is a lot of value to many on here with learning to approach women and socialize. I think balancing that with multiple other perspectives is important though. 

Even just reading something like this (the thread as a whole.) It sounds like some sort of scam or trick that has to played. Life in general is full of this type of stuff it seems like within survival. Although, this thread is a lot more blatant than most. It paints a lot of the picture of where a fair amount of this sub-forum is coming from. 

 

6 hours ago, aurum said:

misanthropic

I had never heard this term before. I can feel a bit of a taste of that here and even some of the values. A lot of this work in general feels like it pushes you a bit this way. 

Edited by Average Investor

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Posted (edited)

It would be nice if he helped to develop actual empathy for the other sex, rather than merely understanding their survival games.

Teal Swan does a good job of this.

She's a weirdo, but if you watch her "what women need from men" and "what men need from women" videos, you get a sense of actual empathy and understanding for both sexes that feels warm rather than cold.

In a certain sense Leo is explaining well how different sexes play different games, but on a holistic level, men and women really are on the same page.

Women want the best for you. They want you to develop into a healthy man.

Sometimes, rejecting you is what's best for you in order to become that.

It is the feedback that you are missing a healthy balance.

Which both of you want for you.

 

Edited by flowboy

I help adults with ADD to overcome self-doubt, function optimally and live their dreams through my proprietary coaching program.

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Besides that, ♂ I offer single breakthrough calls for men on social life, dating, relationships and sexuality.

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1 minute ago, flowboy said:

It would be nice if he promoted actual empathy for women, rather than merely "understanding their survival games".

Yes. Putting the emphasis on the survival game in relationship is a big mistake.

It also hurts men in the long run, who end up seeing everything through this lense... and miss out on the most important, which is love.


Association with the wise is the root cause for obliterating all misery. -  Tripura Rahasya

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The post turned out to be interesting. I agree with many things.
 

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@Etherial Catbut love is just  a chemical reaction that gets triggered in women when they see someone that they consider too strong, if not physicaly then financily and social statusly(cause these will help children and her to survive, a family to survive). I don't know if it is even love or lust or not even lust just attraction. Love in men is just women with nice skin, good architecture of the body in a way that signals fertility and good reproductive organs in front down and top, and behind top. And generally the whole body of woman even the hair. That will produce sex hormones and love will happen. Love will even happen to males that get attention of a 7/10 woman (everyone rates subconsciously, women too).    Let's admit it, this is pure evolution, pure survival.  Nothing romantic. Romance is the love that gets triggered when these things that I just described happen. Love is something that looks like beauty, like paradise, like hope is again in the heart of humans that were dissapointed and suffered in life, but when you look it in the evolutionary perspective, in the way these feelings and behaviours get triggered, then it's actually pretty much disgusting, pure survival, pure illusion for the sake of reproduction, pure manipulation of nature, if man loses his power this attraction will disapear in 0,5 seconds, if woman loses her feminine beauty this attarction will disapear in 0,5 seconds. 

Come to think of it if you analyse life it becomes really pessimistic. Wouldn't you agree?

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Nice wall of text, but it seems to me like you just want this forum to be the way that you want it to be, so your feelings are spared.  You have nearly 24,000 posts in a forum where the admin himself has 30,000--you're on here so much I think it's starting to affect your brain judging by the sheer amount of posts, your threads and your replies to others.  Also "religiously reading every comment that Leo makes" is extremely unhealthy.

The things Leo says about dating/relationships are pure facts and he has even stated that even though what he says seems harsh and polarizing--he's saying it in a way that men could consume this data into our dumb, knuckle dragging brains.  We think with our dicks too much, so he has to speak in a way that we can "get" it.  He's even stated the survival strategies of both men and women are ultimately very different over and over again.  You expect him to tell men to just have a great personality and be nice and open doors?  Lmao.

I know you live in India, but in the United States and other "first world" Western countries; it's not all Disney fairy tales and flower petals on the floor.  It can be cut throat and brutal if you're a man or a woman looking to date or have casual relationships and not get screwed over.

I'd also like to know who "many people have told me the same thing along the lines of - listen to Leo but not when it comes to dating" are.  Are you making shit up so you can just make this thread to change the forum so it aligns with your worldview?  

 

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