Etherial Cat

"Spiral dynamics" of emotions?

10 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Alright. So lately, I have been aware that a lot the work I have to do on the existential journey has to do with how I feel about whatever manifest into my awareness.

I still hold a lot of chimpy emotions that makes me very much dual.

I can hold grudges, resentment, anger and sadness for stuff that do not make sense in actuality because I'm pretty good at understanding unity.

I see all the negative energy stored in "me" as the result of intergenerational traumas which finds its root in the division created by ego when it has first arisen. I actually even had an empirical experience of this which resulted in a provisory enlightenment 3 summers from that.

Is there any good mapping of how one goes from low level feelings towards unity and forgiveness? And this with a good perspectival guidance?

Thanks a lot.

🙏

Edited by Etherial Cat

Association with the wise is the root cause for obliterating all misery. -  Tripura Rahasya

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i'm also about where you're at.

awareness that my attachments are causing all of my suffering and it's 100% my responability, i have only recently began intending to heal myself, it has been really slow but i think i'm beginning to learn how to actually let go and what the process feels like.

https://genius-u-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/picture/image/734/128472_HawkingsScale_1_092617.png 

this comes from a book called letting go: pathway to surrender by david r hawkins.

i felt a very suppressed emotion climb this scale in my own experience. it ended a peace i think, it went from grief.

its extremely hard for me to surface a trauma. i have so many, i'm a riddled bastard. but during a breathing session i started to get flooded with suppressed memories and i didn't get caught up with the stories, the emotion itself surfaced and i glued myself to it as much as i could and sat and basically went on a trip with the emotion. eventually it dissipated, and you TRULY feel what it feels like to let go of a trauma. it dissolves in the very core of you and then you get an amazing wave of relief and i laughed cathartically for a while because it felt that good.

and that's when i knew i had soooooooo much grudges and hatred towards my abusers that i had more or less used thinking to tell myself i'm passed all that. but it's really about being and doing the process rather than thoughts. actions are what are needed. good luck, hope this helps

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Posted (edited)

On a similar path. I did about three years of grieving work (so not avoiding it but closely look at it). Slowly the weight became lighter and lighter. Forgiveness shouldn't be forced it comes when holding onto the pain no longer serves your purpose is what I find. And that purpose tends to get expanded over time to include even your past/current abusers (you're already a step up for seeing it being intergenerational). Being good to yourself helps too even if it seems counter to where you're trying to get to but is the stepping stone to true acceptance. Also meditation (which can happen anytime) that centers around my true nature helps to bring peace when I'm in the grips of those emotions and I'm not in a place to process it yet.

Edited by puporing

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1 hour ago, Etherial Cat said:

I can hold grudges, resentment, anger and sadness for stuff that do not make sense in actuality because I'm pretty good at understanding unity.

I see all the negative energy stored in "me" as the result of intergenerational traumas which finds its root in the division created by ego when it has first arisen. I actually even had an empirical experience of this which resulted in a provisory enlightenment 3 summers from that.

I don't think it's necessary to get rid of all negative emotions. I see them as the five senses. They are all important in telling you what's going on and even if you feel something unpleasant, sometimes it's very valid, reasonable, and a natural response to what's happening. 

Of course, doing things to minimize the amount of times you feel those negative emotions is necessary whether it is coming up with better coping skills or making changes to your environment. But having them totally go away doesn't seem like the best idea imo. 

Like going back to the 5 senses analogy, imagine if you were in a safe and comfortable environment and suddenly out of nowhere you feel something sharp poking you and it hurts. You probably won't want the hurt to go away and it would make sense if it does hurt. You would probably find a way to bandage that up and find a way to heal and be vigilant of things poking you like that again but you aren't going to try to ensure you never feel hurt again when the occasion comes up if that makes sense. That physical sensation is a sign of what's going on. Same with "chimpy emotions." Sure you want to cope with them, but you don't necessarily want to get rid of them completely. 

 

Also I think this is a good time to differentiate between states and stages. I've been thinking about this as well. A depressed stage yellow person for example is still at a higher level of awareness compared to a happy stage blue person if we are looking at stages. But the stage blue person is in a higher state of consciousness compared to the stage green person if we look at emotional states.  States are more flexible and open to change in that they come and go with our emotions. Stages tend to be a little bit more rigid and take more work to deconstruct and move forward. Even if you are at a high stage, you still have a full range of emotions you can tap into. However, even though you're still going to go through "chimpy" emotions, you might have better coping skills and be less likely to get triggered given that you have greater awareness. I guess another way to differentiate states and stages is that states are the fact that you are triggered and stages is what exactly is triggering you. That's how I see it anyway.


Speaking into the void that sometimes answers back 

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3 hours ago, catcat69123 said:

i'm also about where you're at.

awareness that my attachments are causing all of my suffering and it's 100% my responability, i have only recently began intending to heal myself, it has been really slow but i think i'm beginning to learn how to actually let go and what the process feels like.

https://genius-u-attachments.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/picture/image/734/128472_HawkingsScale_1_092617.png 

this comes from a book called letting go: pathway to surrender by david r hawkins.

i felt a very suppressed emotion climb this scale in my own experience. it ended a peace i think, it went from grief.

its extremely hard for me to surface a trauma. i have so many, i'm a riddled bastard. but during a breathing session i started to get flooded with suppressed memories and i didn't get caught up with the stories, the emotion itself surfaced and i glued myself to it as much as i could and sat and basically went on a trip with the emotion. eventually it dissipated, and you TRULY feel what it feels like to let go of a trauma. it dissolves in the very core of you and then you get an amazing wave of relief and i laughed cathartically for a while because it felt that good.

and that's when i knew i had soooooooo much grudges and hatred towards my abusers that i had more or less used thinking to tell myself i'm passed all that. but it's really about being and doing the process rather than thoughts. actions are what are needed. good luck, hope this helps

Thank you for your reply :).

I had already stumbled upon this scale in the past and I find it quite useful. I actually even use it on a regular basis to see how I should progress. That said, I was hoping for something more grounded in psychology and emotional intelligence, which would map the road into shifting perspective. A bit like Spiral Dynamics does on the cognitive level.

That say, I'll give it a further look. I even own a copy of "Letting go". It sits somewhere in my library.

I think you are right, and it is a gradual work that has to be done when it comes to trauma. As you said a lot of them are burried deep down, located in your pain body.

But at the same time, I think that I sense their energetic drag into how I project unto reality on my day to day and live my life. It's like, I know the emotional demons are there and sometimes I see a tail or one of their hears, but they aren't available for a full dragon slay. For that you need to get them out in a different way, like you mention it.

Letting go of them happens naturally in this specific context, through full acceptance of the feeling. It's like, you need to understand why it was like that a make peace to get your serenity back. That's what true forgivness is. :) 


Association with the wise is the root cause for obliterating all misery. -  Tripura Rahasya

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2 hours ago, puporing said:

On a similar path. I did about three years of grieving work (so not avoiding it but closely look at it). Slowly the weight became lighter and lighter. Forgiveness shouldn't be forced it comes when holding onto the pain no longer serves your purpose is what I find. And that purpose tends to get expanded over time to include even your past/current abusers (you're already a step up for seeing it being intergenerational). Being good to yourself helps too even if it seems counter to where you're trying to get to but is the stepping stone to true acceptance. Also meditation (which can happen anytime) that centers around my true nature helps to bring peace when I'm in the grips of those emotions and I'm not in a place to process it yet.

Sorry to hear about your grief. I'm also going through some grieving at the moment and it is really involving a lot of emotional labour and pain coming out. I hope you are doing okay and managed to come to peace with whatever that was.

And thanks a lot for your words, because I find them very valuable :). I feel like you're understanding exactly the place I'm coming from.

What you say is very beautiful. What type of purpose can hold us onto a pain until it is no longer necessary? Growth? Maturity? 

Where I am at is I feel like I'd wish to forgive everything and everyone in one big batch. Because the dissonance between where I am at emotionally and my conceptual knowledge exasperates me. I get that there is not a full understanding and integration of the knowledge itself, but I want to progress better and let go of these emotional drags. 

I think that the fact that my bigest enlightenment occurred and cleaned momentarily everything on a emotional level makes me wish for a similar state instead of gradually alchemizing these emotions. 

But yes, being good to oneself is a big one. Constant meditation as well. All of this is tied together. Awareness is the remedy.

 


Association with the wise is the root cause for obliterating all misery. -  Tripura Rahasya

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2 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I don't think it's necessary to get rid of all negative emotions. I see them as the five senses. They are all important in telling you what's going on and even if you feel something unpleasant, sometimes it's very valid, reasonable, and a natural response to what's happening. 

Of course, doing things to minimize the amount of times you feel those negative emotions is necessary whether it is coming up with better coping skills or making changes to your environment. But having them totally go away doesn't seem like the best idea imo. 

Like going back to the 5 senses analogy, imagine if you were in a safe and comfortable environment and suddenly out of nowhere you feel something sharp poking you and it hurts. You probably won't want the hurt to go away and it would make sense if it does hurt. You would probably find a way to bandage that up and find a way to heal and be vigilant of things poking you like that again but you aren't going to try to ensure you never feel hurt again when the occasion comes up if that makes sense. That physical sensation is a sign of what's going on. Same with "chimpy emotions." Sure you want to cope with them, but you don't necessarily want to get rid of them completely. 

Oh no, I didn't mean it in the way of getting rid of all negative emotions. That is not what it is about. What I had in mind was more about how to let go of sticky past emotions that aren't necessary in actuality and just drains you.

Basically, how to forgive. How to find peace with past stuff or things that aren't that emotionally intelligent to feel.

Emotions are really important on a day to day basis and I join you in that. But past "stored" emotions acting as a background noises are often rooted in perspective that are somewhat outdated or not of the highest understanding and I'm looking for way on how to make peace with them. Because there is a lag between what I know and what I feel.

2 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Also I think this is a good time to differentiate between states and stages. I've been thinking about this as well. A depressed stage yellow person for example is still at a higher level of awareness compared to a happy stage blue person if we are looking at stages. But the stage blue person is in a higher state of consciousness compared to the stage green person if we look at emotional states.  States are more flexible and open to change in that they come and go with our emotions. Stages tend to be a little bit more rigid and take more work to deconstruct and move forward. Even if you are at a high stage, you still have a full range of emotions you can tap into. However, even though you're still going to go through "chimpy" emotions, you might have better coping skills and be less likely to get triggered given that you have greater awareness. I guess another way to differentiate states and stages is that states are the fact that you are triggered and stages is what exactly is triggering you. That's how I see it anyway.

I'm loving this train of thoughts. I never thought about this before. I'll contemplate on that. :)


Association with the wise is the root cause for obliterating all misery. -  Tripura Rahasya

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I think self-forgiveness and self-compassion is so, so important, because getting down on ourselves for feeling a certain way only exacerbates the issue.

I think it's also important to bear in mind that a very angry, resentful person is also a very hurt person on a deeper level, though they may not be conscious of that hurt - I know that in my own experience, when I soften into the anger, resentment, bitterness, etc., what I find underneath those harder emotions are feelings like despair, grief, and powerlessness, and it's these underlying emotions that need to be processed in order for us to truly forgive. And this may take a lot of time and effort, it doesn't tend to happen overnight.

And you know what, EC? You're doing great :)


'When you look outside yourself for something to make you feel complete, you never get to know the fullness of your essential nature.' - Amoda Maa Jeevan

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4 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

Where I am at is I feel like I'd wish to forgive everything and everyone in one big batch. Because the dissonance between where I am at emotionally and my conceptual knowledge exasperates me. I get that there is not a full understanding and integration of the knowledge itself, but I want to progress better and let go of these emotional drags. 

This to me sounds like you may be in resistance to your healing journey itself. In other words, “healed” becomes the thing which we feel we are “not enough” of. A meta-level healing then becomes necessary.

What if your healing never ended? What if you can’t just forgive everyone and everything all at once? What’s the rush? What will be better in the future than it is right now?


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9 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

What you say is very beautiful. What type of purpose can hold us onto a pain until it is no longer necessary? Growth? Maturity? 

For me it all comes down to the expansion of love to a point where you no longer differentiate between what's lovable. It's a tall order to fill in practice if you experienced trauma/abuse so don't expect to get there quickly. It's like a long term goal. :)

 

9 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

Basically, how to forgive. How to find peace with past stuff or things that aren't that emotionally intelligent to feel.

Yea.. I hear you. I actually think it is an emotionally intelligent thing that you're feeling it, because it's telling you to focus on it. Most people push those feelings down and act like nothing is amiss (well maybe eventually it catches up to them but yeah mainstream culture discourages examining past wounds too deeply..). I'd try finding a therapist if you can afford that, and resources (like books or videos) that help you make aware of the dynamics of your past relationships (if that's what we're talking about here!). A greater understanding of your past can help you move forward and heal, and also help you with future relationships. (pretty broad statements but I'm going off of the general gist I'm getting from your post). 

 

9 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

Sorry to hear about your grief. I'm also going through some grieving at the moment and it is really involving a lot of emotional labour and pain coming out. I hope you are doing okay and managed to come to peace with whatever that was.

You're on the right track! Yes it can be very exhausting... I hope you have someone to talk to about it. And thank you for checking in I am doing well, that stuff comes up for me when I have to talk to my parents still xD but is lessening with time.  

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