Husseinisdoingfine

Humans aren’t equal? But I thought this was a left wing forum?

15 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I remember Leo talking about how in his Bernie vlog, how we just have to accept that so many people in society are just stupid. Leo also made the nine stages of ego development video.
 

Doesn’t this fly in the face of progressive thinking which states that all people are fundamentally equal? If so, then why does Leo support progressive Social Democracy? Left wing thought is rooted in the idea that people are fundamentally equal.

 If we are fundamentally unequal, then shouldn’t we live in a sharks and minnows hierarchical system where recourses and power is distributed to the deserving?

 

Edited by Husseinisdoingfine

لا إله إلا الله، وليو رسول الله

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I think it's more about realizing that human beings aren't infinitely malleable, which is a mistake that's common in many of the visionary attempts to remold society, from the French Revolution to Marx's vision for a stateless society run by workers.

Accepting that some people are just kind of dumb only conflicts with Progressive values of equality and egalitarianism if you subscribe to outdated notions of someone's worth being determined by thier level of Intelligence. Or to put it another way, if you happen to believe that someone only has worth by the Utility they bring to the rest of the Society.

(This was more or less the view of the very early Progressive movement of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, and led to all sorts of ugliness such as eugenics. Something that to its credit modern Progressivism has shed itself of).

 


"The mind is inherently embodied.
Thought is mostly unconscious.
Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical." - George Lakoff

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Not everyone is equally capable of taking care of themselves or of contributing to society. Those who are more capable have a moral obligation to help care for those who are less capable.

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This might be interesting in that context
 

 

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2 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Doesn’t this fly in the face of progressive thinking which states that all people are fundamentally equal? If so, then why does Leo support progressive Social Democracy? Left wing thought is rooted in the idea that people are fundamentally equal.

Progressive thinking states that all people are 'equal', as in, all people should have equal rights. Society shouldn't be prejudiced against certain groups of people. Against blacks, against minorities, against women, against the LGBT people, etc.

It is about equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome! I'm making the Jordan Peterson point here because it applies.

2 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

If we are fundamentally unequal, then shouldn’t we live in a sharks and minnows hierarchical system where recourses and power is distributed to the deserving?

We do.

Having said that, it's not that we can't have better ways of doing things or that we can linearly classify people as better than/worse than other people. Every person is going to have unique strengths and weaknesses. In an ideal world, if every person finds their Life Purpose and commits to it, everyone will be a leader. It won't have to be a hierarchy anymore, it can be a holarchy. Of unequal but diverse and unique people.

Progressivism is more about diversity than 'equality'!


"Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one." - Bruce Lee

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On 28.7.2021 at 3:35 PM, Husseinisdoingfine said:

If we are fundamentally unequal, then shouldn’t we live in a sharks and minnows hierarchical system where recourses and power is distributed to the deserving?

Who is "the deserving?"


To balance beauty and complexity so perfectly is a divine mystery.

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On 28.7.2021 at 3:35 PM, Husseinisdoingfine said:

If so, then why does Leo support progressive Social Democracy? Left wing thought is rooted in the idea that people are fundamentally equal.

I dont think that he does identify himself as left-wing or democrat, he only is for the most conscious politics possible that also have a chance.

On 28.7.2021 at 3:35 PM, Husseinisdoingfine said:

If we are fundamentally unequal, then shouldn’t we live in a sharks and minnows hierarchical system where recourses and power is distributed to the deserving?

I think you are missing a point. Only because we are unequal, it does not mean that we should have different worth or different rights. Of course not everyone is equal, but that does not mean that some are better or some deserve more. ( If it is smarter in the relative sense that for example the more conscious to have more power, is another topic) 

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Ken Wilber articulates well the difference between two different kinds of hierarchies. Dominance hierarchies and growth hierarchies. 
I’ll start another thread for this shortly,,,,


"To have a free mind is to be a universal heretic." - A.H. Almaas

"We have to bless the living crap out of everyone." - Matt Kahn

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On 7/28/2021 at 2:01 PM, DocWatts said:

I think it's more about realizing that human beings aren't infinitely malleable

I read War and Peace awhile back, the book was written around 1870 in Russia.  Almost every point about human nature in the book applies 150 years later across languages and continents.  We are not as malleable as people want to believe.

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@Woke456

On 31/07/2021 at 7:43 PM, Woke456 said:

I read War and Peace awhile back, the book was written around 1870 in Russia.  Almost every point about human nature in the book applies 150 years later across languages and continents.  We are not as malleable as people want to believe.

   That is amazing.

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This is not a left wing forum. This is a consciousness forum.

If the right wing acted consciously this place would look very right wing. And if my mother had balls she would be my father.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Intellectual ability, or ability of any kind, has no connection to someone's right to fundamental dignity. How smart you are is an accident of birth. And even one family can have a wide range. 

It's notable how conservatives like to talk about IQ a lot since they have lower IQ than liberals themselves. I suppose it's because they want to feel good about themselves by kicking down those they believe are lesser than them. Conservatives appear to enjoy power, domination, keeping others 'in their place.' 

 

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Posted (edited)

@Husseinisdoingfine People are, and aren't equal. Depends on the measurement. 

At their core, they human, God and everyone deserves respect.

On the other hand, their are stages of development etc

Edited by Thought Art

"Now here's the Sun and it's alright, Now here's the Moon and It's alright..But every-time you close your eyes... Lies" -Arcade Fire Rebellion

Personal Growth Vlog - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzVkdPNRrNT7SN1aoco2MdA

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