God Prevailed Against Darkness and Emptiness

[EnRoute]

Hello.

When I think of and observe the nature of reality, I conclude that it is real. Reality exists. Then I tend to ask a few questions, like:

If consciousness would have never existed, what would be instead of it? What's behind consciousness? There must be something behind it.

And what is consciousness made of? Is it possible to grasp and comprehend it?

I've been reading "God Is Not Great", a book written by Cristopher Hitchens, an individual who doesn't declare himself a skeptic or an atheist.

Hitchens believes that consciousness is a byproduct of the human brain. He also thinks that we're bodies.

There's scientific evidence that humans have brain circuits and receptors for psychedelic substances, meaning that a psychedelic trip is just a hallucination of the brain, and not a fundamental truth that leads to God-realization. Without those brain circuits, "God-realization" wouldn't be possible. Without the human brain, experience, perception, visualization and all the other important functions of human life would not be possible.

Why isn't materialism possible? What's wrong with materialism?

I have nothing against spirituality; all I want is to find out the truth.

[Raptorsin7]

Show me a hardcore materialist like hitchens who is genuinely at peace and happy.

 

[Adamq8]

This is just more mental masturbation, he can talk all day about neurons and GOD being a brain thing.

But the way they look at conciousness has not produced 1 single evidence of how unconcious dead matter became this, not 1, not even in theory.

And conciousness is the one and only thing youve ever known.

They go to great lenght to sound smart and that they are really close to figure the universe out and how the brain produces conciousness. 

But get this, it is all just a fiction and a show to keep the money flowing into research.

[Psitarron]

1 hour ago, EnRoute said:

Hello.

When I think of and observe the nature of reality, I conclude that it is real. Reality exists. Then I tend to ask a few questions, like:

If consciousness would have never existed, what would be instead of it? What's behind consciousness? There must be something behind it.

And what is consciousness made of? Is it possible to grasp and comprehend it?

I've been reading "God Is Not Great", a book written by Cristopher Hitchens, an individual who doesn't declare himself a skeptic or an atheist.

Hitchens believes that consciousness is a byproduct of the human brain. He also thinks that we're bodies.

There's scientific evidence that humans have brain circuits and receptors for psychedelic substances, meaning that a psychedelic trip is just a hallucination of the brain, and not a fundamental truth that leads to God-realization. Without those brain circuits, "God-realization" wouldn't be possible. Without the human brain, experience, perception, visualization and all the other important functions of human life would not be possible.

Why isn't materialism possible? What's wrong with materialism?

I have nothing against spirituality; all I want is to find out the truth.

Materialism is a form of philosophical monism that holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental states and consciousness, are results of material interactions.

---

Now that we have the definition, I'll establish some of my personal parameters to contextualize my reply.

- I am an anti-theist. - I find organized religion repellant in every way. Nothing inherent within them requires invocation of mythology. Truth does not require belief, it proves its validity via evidence. To invoke the concept of mythology stops inquiry into the unknown. This is the primary reason that I find religions utterly repellant. "oh look that' just happened? what is it??" - then some zealot comes along and says "oh that's god's will or god did this or that, or whatever." - it's a narrative fiction to shut down inquiry and establish an authoritarian regime built on lies and pain. 

Now - as to the concept of a higher power, there are many higher powers. To the fish, the fisherman is a higher power. To the fisherman, the police are a higher power. To the police the mayor is a higher power. To the mayor, the senator is a higher power. etc. etc. 

I prefer to expolore the world in which I find myself without the colored lens of propaganda or mythology. The beauty of psychadelic mushrooms is that you have an opportunity to experience heightened states of being and spirituality directly. There is no snake oil peddler standing between you and that experience. The only one standing between you and what is possible is yourself.

I prefer the mystery, the unknown and the majesty of exploration. For example, I started using mushrooms to heal myself. I took a weekly slightly increasing dose over the course of two months. During this time, I was able to correct the depression I was grappling with, become aware of discord and imbalances in my state of being and make corrective actions to improve my live, my mind, and my existence.

Near the end of that healing phase, I took a larger dose and encountered what I refer to as the voice of the mushroom. - Those of a mythological bent would not see this as a hyperdimensional being but would shut down inquiry and label the unknown into the known with three appalling little letters. They would not inquire, experiment, converse, learn or be open to a dialogue. I don't blame them, for they are following their nature, which has been shaped by the indoctrination and environment in which they grew up.

I however, chose a different path. I prefer evidence, experimentation and experience. If the experience is valid, experimentation will yeild evidence. If not, then the experiment was flawed or the experience is invalid.

The mushroom is a sacred plant that is more than a plant. It is connected to a sentient mind that exists outside of normal three dimensional space. When one ingests mushrooms, the perceptions and holographic world our brain presents to us is pealed back. For a brief moment we are able to sense ourselves in a higher dimensional plane. It is quite reasonable to assert that the core of ourselves exists also in this higher dimensional state and it's shadow into three dimensional space is what we percieve as our physical bodies. 

Suppose for a moment that a fish sees a fly just above the water, and then rushes up to the surface to catch it, leaping out of the water. Now let's say, that the fish lands into a rowboat with a fisherman that happend to be there. It would be incorrect for the fish to call the fisherman god simply because the fish is ignorant of the world above the one he knows. - Yet some fish are curious. Some fish evolve the capacity to expolre above the water and eventually make that world thier own. Metaphorically speaking, there are parallels to our own history here.

Be careful when  you ask others for "truth." it is often subjective and will stop the inquiry process.

If you want to find the truth, find your own truth. The mushroom is always willing to commune with those seeking a relationship and there's a reason they are referred to as teachers. 

 

*oh and as for the other comment in the thread - I have never felt better, happier, or filled with more purpose than I currently am. 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Psitarron

[BipolarGrowth]

Don’t think of it in terms of a brain. That’s just lazy investigation. A brain is a belief made up of transient sensations. 
 

Everything will always be transient sensations. A materialistic paradigm is not as investigative as a sensation-only paradigm. A paradigm is never an absolute answer for everything forever, but it’s better to have a more consistent paradigm than one which takes as many guesses as materialism. 

[snowyowl]

@BipolarGrowth sure, the outside objective world is a theory based on our transient sense perceptions. But where do those perceptions come from? Some folks here seem to suggest that consciousness creates itself, but that's just another belief isn't it? 

[Batman]

You want to find out the Truth, yet you read books by authors that clings to beliefs.

Put simply, science is not direct "knowledge" of what is the Truth. Science is about observing phenomena and experience on different levels and degrees of perception. The information gathered from observing the behavior of form is then processed in the human intellect for the production of conclusions. 

Theories and conclusions by science can only be relative truth because they depend on perception, and perception of any thing is never the Absolute Truth. By definition. In order for a thing to be perceived it must be limited in some way, and so it cannot be Absolute. Moreover, sensory organs are not designed to detect the Absolute Truth, they are designed to serve the survival of the organism. This is the only reason any sentient being posses some sort of perceptive faculty. Perception, therefore, is always secondary to Absolute Truth. In other words, you can't perceive what is Truth from within the dream of the human experience. Every form of knowing, be it perception or mind, is secondary to Truth. If it wasn't obvious until this point, than yes, perceptions and mind are "made of" or an "expression of" Truth, or God, or Love, or Infinity, or Nothing, call it whatever you like. 

And Truth isn't created, nor does it have any beginning or end in whatever dimension of existence you can think about. It is infinite, eternal, and also this present moment of you reading this meaningless comment. And it will remain meaningless especially if someone is believing in what said above. Belief is an activity of mind, and in that regard I would also add: it is a very crude and weak form of knowledge even within the relative existence of our shared dream. Belief is antithetical to Truth. If you believe in anything you are actually saying: "I'm ignorant of the Truth, therefore I adopt conceptual knowledge in the form of mind activity to fill the vacuum of my ignorance". It is better to remain ignorant - this way, at least, you are still open for the Truth. So before going for what is Truth, start by dispelling all your beliefs. Have you ever heard of the Zen koan (or something like that) regarding emptying your cup? Maybe now you understand the metaphor. 

 

[BipolarGrowth]

10 minutes ago, snowyowl said:

@BipolarGrowth sure, the outside objective world is a theory based on our transient sense perceptions. But where do those perceptions come from? Some folks here seem to suggest that consciousness creates itself, but that's just another belief isn't it? 

Yes, that is another belief. Theories about what consciousness does and doesn’t do outside of your experience are absolutely never investigable. All you can investigate is the bundle of sensations in the present moment as they arise and immediately pass away. That’s all you ever have to work with. Have you ever focused much on serious Buddhism? It takes skepticism in a much more beneficial direction than materialist attempts. 
 

The three characteristics listed here are the best place to start imo https://www.mctb.org/mctb2/table-of-contents/part-i-the-fundamentals/5-the-three-characteristics/

 

[snowyowl]

@BipolarGrowth  hi, yes I've had some experience with Buddhism although not MCTB so thanks for the link. 

It's true that we're in a field of consciousness. Early Buddhism  focuses mainly on how to end suffering, which is really important but seems less interested in the philosophy of what reality is grounded on. 

How about if a scientist uses some equipment to get data which is outside the range of our senses, like x-rays or magnetic fields,  does that suggest reality is made up of more than our human senses, perceptions, awareness etc? 

My own current and loosely held view is that reality outside our awareness is a mystery which we can only guess at indirectly from whatever data we can get into our minds, via sensory or extra-sensory means.

[Psitarron]

2 hours ago, Batman said:

 If you believe in anything you are actually saying: "I'm ignorant of the Truth, therefore I adopt conceptual knowledge in the form of mind activity to fill the vacuum of my ignorance". 

 

Well said and excellently articulated. 

[BipolarGrowth]

1 hour ago, snowyowl said:

@BipolarGrowth  hi, yes I've had some experience with Buddhism although not MCTB so thanks for the link. 

It's true that we're in a field of consciousness. Early Buddhism  focuses mainly on how to end suffering, which is really important but seems less interested in the philosophy of what reality is grounded on. 
 

This seems unrelated to philosophy, but you actually can’t properly investigate anything without ending suffering in greater and greater degrees. The suffering does such a good job at informing you that you have a consistent self that you can’t get clear insight into anything if you are constantly trying to avoid suffering.

How about if a scientist uses some equipment to get data which is outside the range of our senses, like x-rays or magnetic fields,  does that suggest reality is made up of more than our human senses, perceptions, awareness etc? 

This doesn’t prove anything. An x-ray reading is just another transient bundle of sensations. Sensations are all that is accessible. Thought is considered to be a sensation in this sense also btw albeit a mind-based sensation. 

My own current and loosely held view is that reality outside our awareness is a mystery which we can only guess at indirectly from whatever data we can get into our minds, via sensory or extra-sensory means.

This is absolutely right. The real trick is that you have to notice that every single sensation passes so quickly that you realize the present moment is itself an illusion. A self identity is always attached to reality as an afterthought. One of my favorite ways to notice this impermanence is by listening to music and seeing that each sound is actually entirely inaccessible immediately after it occurs. You’re only left with a mental impression of what that sound was like to compare it to the sound which occurs next. 

I think you’ll find MCTB to be really helpful. 

[snowyowl]

@BipolarGrowth thanks, I may put MCTB on my reading list, after TMI and Boundless Awareness ?