Droo_

Is science still worth studying?

34 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I used to study science and math just for the heck of it outside of school. I am about to go to college and I am leaning towards doing something STEM-related. Although I am not sure if I want my life purpose to revolve around science.

Edited by Droo_
.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

what do you mean? not sure if I understand your question

there's a lot of good science out there. science isn't holistic but it's definitely very useful. like i personally appreciate different scientific therapy modalities like exposure therapy, cbt, dbt etc. 

but i guess it depends on what you're after and what you want?

Edited by Jacob Morres

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

@Jacob Morres Well I feel like Leo criticizes science a lot in his videos so I am asking does studying science (like taking science courses, reading science textbooks, and in my case actually going to college for it) worth it even if your life purpose may or may not be related to science? Will I just be wasting my time studying science or is it actually useful to know? Like would it be any different than me opening up a bible and studying that?

Edited by Droo_

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Droo_  While I can not speak for Leo - he criticizes science because he loves it and wants it to continue to evolve and become better.

Nonetheless when you say something like ‘should I study science’ you have to be careful you are not being a dogmatic sheep. 
 

Besides what do you even mean by that?

Should you listen to science?

Is science trustworthy?

Questions like these show a fundamental mis understanding of ‘science.’

All science is is trial and error; in its essence.

So maybe become more scientific. Try more things, experiment more, learn from your mistakes - independently.

DO science

Do not study or follow it dogmatically.

Once you have done enough and understand trial and error, why it is needed, what could be improved with it, etc. then you can study science.

Otherwise how do you know the science you’re studying is good? - if you don’t know how to do science or what it really is.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Droo_ said:

Although I am not sure if I want my life purpose to revolve around science.

Nothing wrong with having a decent level of general education but if your LP is not in the area of any science there is probably no need to go deep into any scientific discipline. The right question to ask is "is science worth studying TO ME?"

Because science as a worldview is always worth studying ut it is not the only possible perspective which is where it is easy to get confused and take it for the absolute. 


MY WEBSITE  I'm a certified nutritionist & health coach. I help men who struggle with chronic health problems, to remember what happy & healthy feels like. 

HEALTH E-BOOKS - learn how to boost your mental performance, energy and health (free download) 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I think it is useful, as long as you don't expect the mainstream methodologies of science to be adequate for answering the most fundamental questions. Studying it is really good for integrating rationality. To go post-rational, you have to see the value in rationality first, otherwise you risk conflating the pre-rational and the post-rational. You can then better identify the limits of rationality and transcend it, without going into magical belief based pre-rational thinking. 

It can lay useful epistemic foundations for identifying pre-rational claims. Understanding stuff like falsification, correlation vs. causation, statistical significance and various methods from the qualitative to quantitative, methdologies from social constructionism to hardcore positivism can be eye opening. I think the key is to remain questioning throughout the process, not buying into the story that the more mainstream methodologies will be able to answer the deepest questions, but still trying to see the value in them. 

But I bet you could get many of the benefits just by studying some epistemology, for example some of the street epistemology videos on youtube are a great way to grasp the general vibe. There are also interdisplinary programs that bring in more holistic views of the world and a wider array of methodologies. I think the most exciting and cutting edge stuff in universities are the programs and courses that combine "hard" science fields with sociology and the humanities to look at global phenomena from multiple perspectives. I would look into those types of things if you have interest in more holistic views. 

But really, you can learn all that by yourself if you are determined, and you can integrate all that stuff probably through many other paths as well. The universities don't own the rights to science, it is an activity and way of thinking that can be discovered, developed and understood by basically anyone anywhere. Probably with enough deep introspection, it can be understood without taking in a word of information from the "outside". So the university is just a tool at best. 

Edited by TheAlchemist

Every perspective has at least a piece of the truth in it.

No one is capable of being 100% wrong.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Droo_ said:

Well I feel like Leo criticizes science a lot in his videos so I am asking does studying science (like taking science courses, reading science textbooks, and in my case actually going to college for it) worth it even if your life purpose may or may not be related to science? Will I just be wasting my time studying science or is it actually useful to know? Like would it be any different than me opening up a bible and studying that?

Criticizing science is not the same thing as saying science is useless.

Science is actually incredibly useful. That’s why we use it. Leo understands this.

If you like science and feel that could be your LP, don’t let Leo’s videos turn you away. Rather, think deeply about what he is saying and use his criticisms to actually better science and become a better scientist.

Science will get better by us having more conscious scientists, not abandoning it. And I believe Leo would agree with everything I just said.


Follow me on Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/akourakin/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@aurum Thank you for the advice. Would you say that someone who has broken out of the materialist paradigm that most scientists are currently in will give them a big advantage in the way they do science? Like will they have an easier time being a successful scientist because they are operating under a more advanced paradigm?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Droo_ said:

@aurum Thank you for the advice. Would you say that someone who has broken out of the materialist paradigm that most scientists are currently in will give them a big advantage in the way they do science? Like will they have an easier time being a successful scientist because they are operating under a more advanced paradigm?

Depends on how you define “successful”.

If by “successful” you mean “win Nobel prizes, make the cover of science magazines, be loved by your academic peers and make lots of money”, I can’t promise you that at all. 

The reality is that disrupting a current paradigm often looks a lot more like people trashing your work, not listening to what you have to say and generally being shunned by the “in group”. Look at Rupert Sheldrake and how he is treated.

That being said, sometimes you can be a paradigm disrupted and have a thriving career as well. Sometimes a paradigm is ready to go and just needs a little push. Or perhaps your work will be deeply respected after you die.

If what you care about the most though is pushing the limits of science, then exiting the paradigm of materialism as a scientist will be of great value. You will be able to see things other will not. You’ll be willing to explore ideas others will not. This will all give you an edge in doing cutting edge science.


Follow me on Instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/akourakin/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

bruh without science you wouldent even be able to ask all these questions. so do science it is magical, 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Sciences are good. You will be a better scientist if Leo's criticisms are true.

Just don't confused science with absolute truth, see it as the epistemic and metaphysical construct that it is. 

No one said it will be easier. It will require more responsibility on your part. Be mindful.

Edited by Thought Art

"Now here's the Sun and it's alright, Now here's the Moon and It's alright..But every-time you close your eyes... Lies" -Arcade Fire Rebellion

Personal Growth Vlog - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzVkdPNRrNT7SN1aoco2MdA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you do not know yet what to do with your life, science can only make you flourish, scientific base is necessary for every serious spiritual seeker. Do not think Leo is anti science. He is more scientific than any of your professors. Science, if you do it properly will help you develop a more complex, rich mind which will allow you to make finer and finer distinctions in your life. Doing science is a very efficient way to develop understanding. Of course it supposed that you do it with a scientific approach and properly, which will not necessary be the case.. A lot of « scientific »,as Leo said it, have never done real science 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Umm.. do you enjoy studying it? That's literally the only question there is to answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, thisintegrated said:

Umm.. do you enjoy studying it? That's literally the only question there is to answer.

Of course ^^ I almost forgot you have to love it. But generally love of science comes when you have a serious scientific approach, question everything. Take the time to demonstrate all the theorem you’re using so you don’t do things with no understanding as a lot of scientific does. Make sure you see in your mind what is happening when you solve a problem. So not only what you wrote on the paper makes sense but you can visualise the roller coster of your demonstration of your exercise in your mind which is the most important part. Most scientist are really bad at it. That is why they will never be good scientist and that is why their class lack so much the love part 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, absolutely, studying science trains your brain - people back home used to say, for example, once you study higher mathematics, studying anything else will be a piece of cake for you. As long as you remember to develop in other spheres as well. It will help you to develop so many other great skills - discipline, perseverance, curiosity, confidence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

As science advances, worldviews are getting richer and richer with more complexity/nuance as time goes on. Apparently it ends up taking people like Leo to explain spirituality in the presence of science. It seems the science can only advance from here, which will make things even more confusing for future generations perhaps. 

Suppose it becomes possible to resuscitate to life someone who was dead for days, or maybe weeks, or even months. That would cause people to question beliefs they have about a soul, or beliefs people have about karma/reincarnation.
The way people on this forum talk about death, question death, it would be different. There wouldn't be nearly the same beliefs or room to entertain certain belief systems. It would make the questioning of your existence and life story even more a mind fuck

[Also, if psychedelics really are these things that raise consciousness, that's an example which we already have of science seemingly having power over consciousness]


Science advancing gets people to question things more and negate that which isn't spirituality, but on the other hand it will cause even more confusion and skepticism about spirituality to begin with.

Edited by lmfao

Hark ye yet again — the little lower layer. All visible objects, man, are but as pasteboard masks. But in each event — in the living act, the undoubted deed — there, some unknown but still reasoning thing puts forth the mouldings of its features from behind the unreasoning mask. If man will strike, strike through the mask! How can the prisoner reach outside except by thrusting through the wall? To me, the white whale is that wall, shoved near to me. Sometimes I think there's naught beyond. But 'tis enough

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

@thisintegrated Well, I used to study science just for fun but Leo's criticisms were making me doubt if it is even a valid thing to study. I'm not gonna be motivated to study something if it's just a bunch of bullshit lol. Although it seems like it is because of all the useful things we can do with science.

Edited by Droo_

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

@Droo_ i can relate to disparaging science lol

yes, my guess is to study science if you enjoy it with an understanding of its limits and not holding it as an absolute truth. to also diversify your perspectives and not be dogmatic about it 

bcuz dude science is powerful in many areas. ive personally discovered many powerful areas for myself but it has a lot of limits as well 

honestly i recommend it, follow your bliss really feels like a good statement to say here. but to be aware of its limitations. leo is flawed to btw, validating his philosophies personally i have found some flaws in his teachings 

 

Edited by Jacob Morres

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 28.07.2021 at 5:47 AM, Droo_ said:

I used to study science and math just for the heck of it outside of school. I am about to go to college and I am leaning towards doing something STEM-related. Although I am not sure if I want my life purpose to revolve around science.

There are no things that are worthwhile in general. You gave too little context to give a useful answer.

What are your strengths? What do you want to accomplish? What is your purpose?


The true heresy is hearsay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While basic Scientific Literacy should be considered a necessity in our modern context (similar to how everyone should have basic media literacy and basic financial literacy), that doesn't mean we should accept mainstream Scientific Materialism uncritically.

On the contrary, some of the best and most interesting Science that's being done today is being done outside of a narrow Materialist Reductionism paradigm.


"The mind is inherently embodied.
Thought is mostly unconscious.
Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical." - George Lakoff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now