Dryas

Are stage yellow thinkers unaware of Political Asymmetry?

7 posts in this topic

Daniel talks about taking multiperspectival approach to reality and uses the political left vs right dichotomy as an example.

He extracts the truth from both views and offers a synthesis - all pretty good stuff. I think he's said this in Lex Fridman's podcast and somewhere else too.

I know he's said that not all perspectives are equal but I don't think I've seen him explicitly state that the left wing is generally more conscious/developed/whatever.

I'm just using Daniel as an example - I just haven't seen many people in the Yellow space be as explicit as Leo when it comes to this point.

Am I self biased or ignorant? Perhaps because I myself am more inclined towards leftist politics?

Thoughts?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Dryas said:

I know he's said that not all perspectives are equal but I don't think I've seen him explicitly state that the left wing is generally more conscious/developed/whatever.

I heard Leo said that he studied under Ken Wilber himself, so I doubt he would disagree.


To balance beauty and complexity so perfectly is a divine mystery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Dryas said:

I'm just using Daniel as an example - I just haven't seen many people in the Yellow space be as explicit as Leo when it comes to this point.

I am unusually explicit about such things.

It's a controversial point to make explicit because it then alienates half your audience. So I can see someone like Daniel, who tries to be very careful, not want to explicit alienate anyone and therefore not stating it explicitly.

To say that left is more conscious than right makes you seem like a partisan. It is a taboo thing to say because people assume only a biased partisan would say it. Which is of course a deep epistemic mistake because there is no reason why two worldviews should be equally conscious. In fact, the odds are against it. It's the same mistake as assuming that any two random people taken off the street are equal in intelligence. There is no reason why that would be the case.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Leo Gura Can I just ask a question for clarification? Even though I've always agreed with you that the left is generally more conscious than the right, would you say that an individual right-winger can still be more conscious than an individual on the left? And if so, how common is this? What other factors would we have to look at to determine their level of consciousness?

I guess what I'm really asking here is, how direct is the relationship between someone's level of consciousness and their political leaning?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Peter-Andre said:

@Leo Gura would you say that an individual right-winger can still be more conscious than an individual on the left?

Of course

Quote

And if so, how common is this?

It's hard to say.

Quote

What other factors would we have to look at to determine their level of consciousness?

Level of empathy, degree of self-reflection capacity, awareness of self-bias, ability to see multiple perspectives, degree of holism and systemic thinking, size of one's circle of concern, lack of fear, etc.

Quote

I guess what I'm really asking here is, how direct is the relationship between someone's level of consciousness and their political leaning?

The correlations are pretty significant.

I explained this in my video: How Society Evolves


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I mostly agree with this man, Daniel. But.

There's no such thing as a trans-perspective position from which you get the absolute nature of objects. What is called a trans-perspective, or meta-perspective, is but a temporal synthesis of two opposed concepts that now unites into a single concept. From now on, a unified concept will be the material for a future union. Any perspective, even the trans- or meta- ones, are relative. A perspective, by definition is relative. The absolute includes all objects and therefore can't have an object to examine: for examination, there must be an examiner and an examined; perception implies a perceiver and a perceived.

Another thing is, left and right wings are continuously exchanging their place. Right and left wings are but political names for two modalities which are always present in nature: respectively, homeostasis and allostasis. The former tries to preserve its actual self to survive, and the latter tries to change it, so to survive. Now it happens that the left is ahead, dragging the right in evolution, however, this is not bound to be always the case, since there could be times when the right is what is needed. Since the dawn of republican governments, the left has always been the greater danger: great ideals becomes ideologies and, justified by them, humans committed the most evil things. Communism, nazism, fascism... They're all by products of the left, great rushes which got free from the weight of the right and ended up in destroying whole social systems. Because ideologies, no matter as good they are, are partial and not able to comprehend the totality of the dynamics in a society. Now, instead, the right has done its time and brought to many problems, like climate change, etc... So the left is justified to regain power and we should follow, temporarily. However, I see people turning it into an ideology and that's very dangerous. In short, it's good we're leaving the right, but let's be sure we take care of our own selves, instead of continuously pointing the finger to right winged people. The left of today will be the right of tomorrow.

Edited by Andrea Marchetti

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hm, yea, the taboo thing is a good point. Maybe they open up a little more about this in the future.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now