Thought Art

Worry About Climate Change

83 posts in this topic

I am seeing the wild fires spreading across Western US and Canada. I feel a lot of stress sometimes regarding climate change. It seems like such an important issue yet with no easy solution. I fear the little I know about systems thinking (I've read a book on intro to systems thinking and watched Leos video on it) that we aren't as a collective going to be able to turn the ship around until the damage and rate of heat gets out of hand. I don't want to sound like an alarmist, I've seen Leo downplay the dangers of climate change on the forum in the past. But, I sense humanities survival instinct and selfishness wont be able to turn it around once things get bad enough. 

There aren't enough resources or fire fighters to fight the fires in US and Canada as of right now. The billionaries have their sights on the 'space race' and every single person in the social matrix is simply trying to survive and make the best the can within their own locus on control. In terms of systems thinking there doesn't seem to be any right place to change the systems. Peoples lives and survival are so intertwined with the resources of this planet it seems as we restoring balance is now impossible. I'd love to help out somehow, to make positive systems changes but my power and leverage and knowledge is just so small. 

I think we as individuals can influences the world and make it a better place. But, with climate, social unrest, and the social matrix's health de-terriorating with poor mental health, social cohesion, etc... There doesn't seem to be a story, or a plan or a movement that will get us out of this. I have heard Leo saying things like movements are generally for fools which I think is true. But, I think we as a human race right now are sitting on a gold mine with all the access to information technology and the possibility of automation. 

I want to see humanity get through this and to grow into it's next stage of evolution. I want to be part of the positive changes that need to happen in the world. I have so much work to do. It's hard to remain positive, to stay strong, to believe in myself or my vision when my skills are't high enough, my resources are low, my influence is so small. I wonder... I just have to focus on helping the world in the ways I am developing. I can't be responsible for 7 billion people. 

It's hard to stay motivated when it seems like the world is on a sure route to environmental collapse. I am pretty sure anyone with a brain can agree we are in a climate crises. The question is, is there anything we can do? Is it too late? 

Then I ask myself, what is the point of my life? Why do anything at all? How can I make the world a better place? Is it possible?


"Now here's the Sun and it's alright, Now here's the Moon and It's alright..But every-time you close your eyes... Lies" -Arcade Fire Rebellion

Personal Growth Vlog - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzVkdPNRrNT7SN1aoco2MdA

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7 minutes ago, sholomar said:

For what it's worth, burn cycles are a natural part of forests in the western part of the United States. They are bound to occur, and have always occurred. They are part of the natural life cycle of a forest. Until we start seeding clouds and producing rain, burns will be around.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/dubai-creates-fake-rain-using-drones-battle-122-degree-heat-1611887

I am aware of this. It's a complicated set of systems.


"Now here's the Sun and it's alright, Now here's the Moon and It's alright..But every-time you close your eyes... Lies" -Arcade Fire Rebellion

Personal Growth Vlog - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzVkdPNRrNT7SN1aoco2MdA

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It will auto-correct itself.

That's how suffering works.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It will auto-correct itself.

That's how suffering works.

I hope so, I just think that there may be aspects that COULD get beyond the reach of any human intervention and auto correction. I have such little understanding of it tbh, I just am seeing a pattern here. There is a term in the systems thinking book I can't recall as I am studying at the library, but its something like the 'positive feedback loop' That gets out of control. Like, the runaway green house on Venus for example.

It's a wicked problem involving the whole species with so many threads of human survival and culture running through it. Perhaps it can be stopped. But I fear a lot of suffering and death and war will result from all of this. The US is already going through a social rot that threatens a lot of things I think. 

I think the world governments a business have the ability to make things right. But, no amount of suffering will bring back the delicious banana, or heal a broken relationship, or make you 20 years younger. Some things are beyond our ability to control. I just hope we can as a collective, or whatever change before so much is lost. 

Edited by Thought Art

"Now here's the Sun and it's alright, Now here's the Moon and It's alright..But every-time you close your eyes... Lies" -Arcade Fire Rebellion

Personal Growth Vlog - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzVkdPNRrNT7SN1aoco2MdA

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Mankind has survived far worse with far less technical capability.

There is no reason at all why mankind cannot simply suck all the CO2 out of the atomsphere. It's merely a question of the political will to do so. And as suffering increases political will will increase.

We can make the temperature whatever we want on this planet.

You should be more worried about an asteroid strike. Now that would really fuck us up.

P.S. We can genetically engineer bananas more delicious than you can imagine. Don't be so myopic.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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I even see the climate change as a necessary part of the "evolution of the universe", with its ultimate goal to make itself more consciouss towards itself. And the number one tool to make someone more consciouss is to make him suffer from his unconsciousness. The universe is a pretty "big brain" thing.

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I hear you Thought Art and I want to say your speculations are well founded. People on this forum are downplaying the issue because they don't want to face the grief of the situation. Even Leo with his blasé attitude saying things like "we can suck the CO2 out of the air" is, in my opinion, refusing to face up to the reality of the situation. Yes, he is speaking from the level of cosmic consciousness when he says "suffering auto corrects" but in doing so he is bypassing the unimaginable toll of suffering and destruction that we are potentially facing. This may well include the end of modern society - the very thing that allowed Leo to pursue an examined life. 

We will not turn this ship around. We will lie to ourselves and each other until we can lie no more because our water is dried up or our garden is burning. 

This is not alarmist, this is not 100% the end of the world but for God's sake people look at the science, understand ecosystem fragility and allow yourself to see where this is going and what it means for life on Earth and every-thing you claim to love. 


Divest from the conceptual. Experience the actual.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Mankind has survived far worse with far less technical capability.

There is no reason at all why mankind cannot simply suck all the CO2 out of the atomsphere. It's merely a question of the political will to do so. And as suffering increases political will will increase.

We can make the temperature whatever we want on this planet.

You should be more worried about an asteroid strike. Now that would really fuck us up.

P.S. We can genetically engineer bananas more delicious than you can imagine. Don't be so myopic.

There are too many factors here for me to know one way or the other. I am concerned.

You make good points about self correction mechanisms. 

All it takes is a few hot days to destroy entire cities or countries infrastructure, crops, etc A 4 day heat wave just killed 800 people in Canada and destroyed a whole town. I know that is one small incident in the massive climate system, but it makes me wonder what could happen as we move far beyond the tipping point.

Sure, we can make changes while we have this relative stability. But, if we wait to long... I just wonder. We can only make these changes as we are now. But, if things go south... I suspect our human creativity might be at its end when we can't feed people, hydrate them or keep them cool enough to keep our economies going.

But, I agree we have so much information and technology now I can't foresee what will happen. 

C02 is not even the whole story. There are so many delicate systems all around the planet which are being destroyed all at once which is how we are currently all eating and living our lives. I don't think it's that easy and I am surprised you are thinking, or sharing with me a one size solution to this wicked problem. -- thoughts

Tell it to the brazilions destory their own rainforests (which we all need to survive) that there are easy solutions we all just need to come together. Each countries needs for survival are so twisted.. I really think this is a big deal.

I am okay with being wrong, I am okay with my myopic short sightedness being corrected. At this point, I realize being wrong is my normal state.

I am aware we have the capabilities radically change our environment etc, but I also suspect it's not easy. 

Hopefully the suffering gets people on board. Yet, still people are dying who refuse to get vaccinated. 

Leaders all around the world are still arguing, fighting one another, not agreeing on how to move forward, holding on to old systems. 

There are too many moving pieces here. I am stepping in a radical not knowing when it comes to climate change. 

And, the point I made with the Bananas is more so that things can be loss, and can't be brought back. I am sure we can make some tasty new bananas and I am surprised we haven't already. I suspect it's not as easy as you are making it to be. There is so much complexity taking place. Maybe you make a tastier banana but ruin the soil... 

Ultimately time will tell and I look forward to seeing this problem being solved.  I hope you are right. 

I personally think what we are being called to do on a collective level is akin to turning a tanker ship on a dime. I don't think it's going to happen. We have build way to much infrastructure on systems that are bound to bottom out and self destruct. 

Let it be a lesson for me to understand how systems work. I am fine with being wrong. I will continue to study and observe over time.

I think the problem goes well beyond technical capability... It's a problem of education, habit, localized and distributed survival needs, consciousness just as much as it is infrastructure and technology. 

 

Edited by Thought Art

"Now here's the Sun and it's alright, Now here's the Moon and It's alright..But every-time you close your eyes... Lies" -Arcade Fire Rebellion

Personal Growth Vlog - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzVkdPNRrNT7SN1aoco2MdA

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17 minutes ago, Shmurda said:

We will not turn this ship around.

Myopia


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Posted (edited)

@Leo Gura I will observe and expand outwards. Time will tell.

Systems thinking is very difficult. I hope you got a good accurate beed on it when it comes to climate...

Edited by Thought Art

"Now here's the Sun and it's alright, Now here's the Moon and It's alright..But every-time you close your eyes... Lies" -Arcade Fire Rebellion

Personal Growth Vlog - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzVkdPNRrNT7SN1aoco2MdA

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30 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Leo Gura I will observe and expand outwards. Time will tell.

Systems thinking is very difficult. I hope you got a good accurate beed on it when it comes to climate...

My position on climate change is not rooted in systems thinking, but something much higher: the intelligent design of the entire Universe.

Systems thinking will not get you the vision necessary to see the big picture of humanity.

You really need to awaken to the Infinite Intelligence which is running the whole game. There are no mistakes. So there's ultimately nothing to worry about.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Posted (edited)

@Leo Gura I've caught glimpses of this. I am still very selfish and myopic. Give me time. I have to come to all these insights and understandings in my own time.

Though, perhaps you already know this. 

Edited by Thought Art

"Now here's the Sun and it's alright, Now here's the Moon and It's alright..But every-time you close your eyes... Lies" -Arcade Fire Rebellion

Personal Growth Vlog - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzVkdPNRrNT7SN1aoco2MdA

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@Thought Art Hey, I could always be wrong. Maybe we all die tomorrow.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Posted (edited)

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Thought Art Hey, I could always be wrong. Maybe we all die tomorrow.

I know. 

We will let God show us. We will show ourself. Life needs to be experienced.

Edited by Thought Art

"Now here's the Sun and it's alright, Now here's the Moon and It's alright..But every-time you close your eyes... Lies" -Arcade Fire Rebellion

Personal Growth Vlog - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzVkdPNRrNT7SN1aoco2MdA

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6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My position on climate change is not rooted in systems thinking, but something much higher: the intelligent design of the entire Universe.

Systems thinking will not get you the vision necessary to see the big picture of humanity.

You really need to awaken to the Infinite Intelligence which is running the whole game. There are no mistakes. So there's ultimately nothing to worry about.

If you're implying here that the Universe has sort of evolutionary plan for life on Earth that transcends the destruction of the planetary eco-system then you really don't understand what infinite Love is. God doesn't have anything to prove. 

Of course, if you are saying what I think you're saying which is "all is well in cosmic consciousness" then heck yeah. Great. Aaaaaanyway we're still here on Earth destroying the very ground we stand on.

39 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Myopia

Nice one. I'm glad its not "fool" this time. A bit more specific how gracious of you. Let me rephrase: Its far more likely that we will not turn this ship around in any way that resembles retaining civilized society and the untold suffering of millions if not billions of people. Still Myopic?


Divest from the conceptual. Experience the actual.

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12 minutes ago, Shmurda said:

If you're implying here that the Universe has sort of evolutionary plan for life on Earth that transcends the destruction of the planetary eco-system then you really don't understand what infinite Love is. God doesn't have anything to prove.

God has noting to prove, but God is not an idiot either.

If you think your fear is wiser than 400,000 years of social evolution, perhaps you are a fool after all.

Quote

Let me rephrase: Its far more likely that we will not turn this ship around in any way that resembles retaining civilized society and the untold suffering of millions if not billions of people. Still Myopic?

Yes

Of course millions of people will suffer. But they suffer regardless. There's nothing new or interesting about suffering. If they don't suffer from climate change they will suffer from some other self-made form of devilry.

Millions of people have suffered since the dawn of time, This has no threat to civilization.

You could not destroy civilized society if you tried. Try it! See how far you get.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Most people who worry about climate change aren't doing anything to try and change it. Getting stuck in fear mode does nothing. Get out into nature. While life is suffering in many places, it is also thriving in abundance in others. Also, living more sustainably won't hurt. 


"You Create Magic" 

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