Tangerinedream

Survival agenda of Male vs Female ?

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Why did God make the survival needs of Man and Woman contradictory ? When we look at dating strategies for example. 

Don’t Men also naturally want fatherhood and a loving relationship/family?  Or is this just old fashioned thinking ? 

What exactly is going on here ?

 

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2 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

For the sake of evolution.

You mean so not too many people ? 

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Posted (edited)

@Tangerinedream I think it's very complicated to be understood or put into words.

We live in large societies of millions of people. These people are on different levels; financially, socially, physically, emotionally, etc... and so, everyone has their own unique agendas. Mother nature designed us in a way that gives the best/fittest of us the highest chances of survival. Desirability (sexual market value) is one variable that affects our survival. So, each one of us will naturally have to compete against others in order to maximize their own survival and secure a good life. This competition drives humanity into higher levels of sophistication, which is evolution. That's the simplest explanation that I can come up with.

It's a lot more dynamic, fluid, and flexible than it sounds in words, though. It's nearly impossible to get a holistic understanding of it, because it's changing all the time.

As for the desire to be a father, I think it's also very complicated. It probably has to do with the scale of society and overpopulation. In earlier societies (tribes), it was important to have a lot of kids because they will protect the tribe. Later, with agriculture, kids were still important as the father would not be able to remain strong enough to take care of the land when he's old. Right now, we live in a society that is built upon specialization in very narrow fields of work. We have governments, insurance companies, and medical care systems. So kids are not really necessary from an individual survival pov. At least, it doesn't look like that explicitly. But on a societal level, kids are still important. In the future, governments will have a hard time trying to encourage reproduction. It is estimated that in China, the population will start decreasing after 2030 and that the decline will be unstoppable. A lot of Chinese women right now don't want to be mothers. They're too busy to have kids. We can already see problems caused by the rarity of youths in Europe. The problem of overpopulation is a really serious one. On the one hand, we want to live as long as possible. On the other hand, we can't do that without a certain percentage of youths. And to balance between the two hands is a really serious job, due to countless factors.

This issue is a lot more complicated than that. I just skimmed through the surface here.

Edited by Gesundheit2

Have faith.

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@RendHeaven It's like when you keep repeating the same word over and over again. After a while, you start to question the meaning of that word. "Spaghetti, spaghetti, spaghetti, spaghetti... wait, what the fuck is this word, it sounds weird"😀

Same with this topic, it's been overtalked to death, so much so that you don't even know what's true and what's not😅

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@Gesundheit2 good explanation.  But if it’s about survival of the fittest, how to explain lower conscious people who have lots of children?  But higher conscious people don’t rush to have children.  Isn’t it more important for those higher conscious to reproduce ? 

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1 hour ago, Tangerinedream said:

Why did God make the survival needs of Man and Woman contradictory ? When we look at dating strategies for example. 

For them to learn how to love each other.

Maybe that's the whole trick of the conflicting agenda. It needs to be reconciled. :) 

If the survival agenda was easy and non conflicting, there wouldn't be as much beauty and growth in relationships.  The conflicting agenda get us out of the comfort zone. And there would be non moment of you going out of your way for your beloved in a generous, selfless way. 

Converging perceptions, feeling compassion and empathy for the other person's challenges, understanding him/her is what true affection is like.

1 hour ago, Tangerinedream said:

Don’t Men also naturally want fatherhood and a loving relationship/family?

Men don't like much getting committed in general. They like their freedom and need to feel ready to give it away.

Society put a lot of expectations and responsibility over their shoulders and I can understand that having a baby whose survival depends on you can freak someone out. And a family is a lot of work. Your autonomy is greatly reduced.

And then, there is all this lack of vision, distrust and pessimism due to seeing how the average family looks like nowadays. It looks like a failed model.

They don't believe in it anymore. Their mind paint an undesirable image and they don't see how a family can be full of love with the right woman.


Association with the wise is the root cause for obliterating all misery. -  Tripura Rahasya

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18 minutes ago, Tangerinedream said:

@Gesundheit2 good explanation.  But if it’s about survival of the fittest, how to explain lower conscious people who have lots of children?  But higher conscious people don’t rush to have children.  Isn’t it more important for those higher conscious to reproduce ? 

High vs. Low consciousness is arbitrary. In reality, people use these distinctions to further advance their survival agendas.


Have faith.

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You could also ask why did God make men and women different.

The survival strategy builds on the uniqueness and strength of each gender.

And the incompleteness of each gender.

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Just now, universe said:

You could also ask why did God make men and women different.

The survival strategy builds on the uniqueness and strength of each gender.

And the incompleteness of each gender.

Yes. Exactly.


Association with the wise is the root cause for obliterating all misery. -  Tripura Rahasya

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, Tangerinedream said:

Why did God make the survival needs of Man and Woman contradictory ? When we look at dating strategies for example. 

Don’t Men also naturally want fatherhood and a loving relationship/family?  Or is this just old fashioned thinking ? 

What exactly is going on here ?

 

They actually aren’t very contradictory by nature. They mostly complement one another.

What you see on here is a lot of guys in the phase of their lives that’s focused toward learning to attract women. And many of them are late-bloomers who might have immature views on women. Add to that a ton of social conditioning that ties their self-esteem directly to sleeping with tons of women. And you get these results.

But a similarity between men and women is that we both have a promiscuous drive and a relationship drive.

The difference is that the relationship drive is usually primary in women and the promiscuous drive is usually primary in men.

And by primary, I just mean that it’s the thing that’s triggered first in the attraction process.

And it is only slightly more challenging to trigger the relationship drive in mature men than it is to trigger the relationship drive in women. We’re about equal in that sense.

But the promiscuous drive in men is just always triggered. And it’s on their mind a lot. And they don’t usually value relationship until they’re really in it. But they value sex all the time. Sex is something they consciously prioritize.

But if a man’s relationship drive is triggered, and he has a decent amount of emotional mastery, he will tend to want commitment and fatherhood with the woman he loves.

And as long as he’s untied his self-esteem from sexual acquisition and had enough sexual adventures in his life to feel like he hasn’t missed out, the man will easily choose the drives toward love and relationship over the drive toward random sex.

But not until he recognizes the emptiness of meaning in random sex. If it still has meaning to him, it will be hard for him to sacrifice it for commitment because it’s deeply tied to his understanding of himself.

Edited by Emerald

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8 minutes ago, Emerald said:

They actually aren’t very contradictory by nature. They mostly complement one another.

What you see on here is a lot of guys in the phase of their lives that’s focused toward learning to attract women. And many of them are late-bloomers who might have immature views on women. Add to that a ton of social conditioning that ties their self-esteem directly to sleeping with tons of women. And you get these results.

But a similarity between men and women is that we both have a promiscuous drive and a relationship drive.

The difference is that the relationship drive is usually primary in women and the promiscuous drive is usually primary in men.

And by primary, I just mean that it’s the thing that’s triggered first in the attraction process.

And it is only slightly more challenging to trigger the relationship drive in mature men than it is to trigger the relationship drive in women. We’re about equal in that sense.

But the promiscuous drive in men is just always triggered. And it’s on their mind a lot. And they don’t usually value relationship until they’re really in it. But they value sex all the time. Sex is something they consciously prioritize.

But if a man’s relationship drive is triggered, and he has a decent amount of emotional mastery, he will tend to want commitment and fatherhood with the woman he loves.

And as long as he’s untied his self-esteem from sexual acquisition and had enough sexual adventures in his life to feel like he hasn’t missed out, the man will easily choose the drives toward love and relationship over the drive toward random sex.

But not until he recognizes the emptiness of meaning in random sex. If it still has meaning to him, it will be hard for him to sacrifice it for commitment because it’s deeply tied to his understanding of himself.

I'm loving your answer as well. :D

It's like we've got agenda/life track that are polarized but converge ultimately once enough life is experienced on both part.


Association with the wise is the root cause for obliterating all misery. -  Tripura Rahasya

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Posted (edited)

It is about yin and yang but also about biology. 

Edited by StarStruck

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For the agendas to be the same men and women would literally have to be identical. Then there would not be any sexual polarity that makes you all hot.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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46 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

For the agendas to be the same men and women would literally have to be identical. Then there would not be any sexual polarity that makes you all hot.

The answer would be a delicate/moderate balance between sexual polarities and agenda so both are retained. This would need high skill and understanding to perfect like balancing a knife on it's point, although not entirely impossible.

 


 INTP loner... .shy girl.. The devil loves me a bit too much. 

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What appears as a contradiction on the individual level, is  complementation when considered at the relationship level. All for the purpose of mutual growth and maturation.


The true heresy is hearsay.

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maybe god is a sadist that's why.

Men and women are so different, if it wasn't for sexual drive of men and attraction for stronger provider of women they wouldn't be together in trillion years. 

men and women weren't made to be together, they just are cause that's how their hormones work and that's how evolution made their hormones work 

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33 minutes ago, eaaaeaeae said:

men and women weren't made to be together, they just are cause that's how their hormones work and that's how evolution made their hormones work 

That's like saying, 'Legos weren't made to go together, they just do because that's how their parts work and that's how they were made to work'.  


"I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people."

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