Preety_India

Why can't humanity transcend survival?

108 posts in this topic

4 minutes ago, OneHandClap said:

Yes, right on :) I rather enjoy taking care of this body. The psychological side, as you noted, is really what people resent. It's not the actual pain, it's the suffering linked to the perception of pain. Survival is what allows us to have a culture, a language, a nation, an... anything, really! Survival gets a bad rap around here sometimes. 

I like that perspective, thank you :)

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@Blackhawk nice analogy 


I live my life in a dream; the constant threat of a rude awakening keeps me on my toes.
-Mettley Zimmer

 

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@nuwu

37 minutes ago, nuwu said:

Sorry, you don't deserve to survive because my art is objectively better than yours.

Have fun staying poor!

  Nani?! Hold my canvas.

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, OneHandClap said:

Survival gets a bad rap around here sometimes. 

When a forum member actually dies or commits suicide then they suddenly think that death is the biggest tragedy ever, like it's the end of the world.

Edited by Blackhawk

"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."   — Robert A. Heinlein

"I'm allergic to stupidity."   — Chris Colfer

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47 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

When a forum member actually dies or commits suicide then they suddenly think that death is the biggest tragedy ever, like it's the end of the world.

100%. People think the "nothing matters, I made everything, ha ha ha" shtick is all fun and games until real life smacks the God out of them. Being drunk on oneness is not a permanent condition. Eventually, we all must reconcile with the fact that we exist right now, right here as human beings. Anyone who denies this is trying to bypass the hardships that come with the human package IMO. Survival is what runs us. It's got millions of years of evolution on us. 

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23 hours ago, Preety_India said:

But what if someone made a movement about transcending survival ?

 

Im not wise by any means but I do see that when you create a movement (wether is for the planet, LGBT,  transcend survival etc) a collective ego is born. Now you identify as the movement and anything threatening it becomes the enemy. Whatever higher purpose you had at the beginning automatically becomes low priority and the survival of your self/the group/movement becomes essential. I found Leo's video on Content vs Structure very helpful to understand this. The problem is not the theme of the movement. The problem is the the existence of a movement itself, whatever its objective may be. Not that movements are evil, but they get in the way of transcendence. I'ts easier to be surrounded by people, trying to convince everyone else to join you and demonize those who don't than to sit alone and face your demons by yourself.

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@Alfonsoo by that logic, no movement would have ever existed in history, no social upheaval would have ever been possible

Today black people have rights because of civil rights movements.

Workers have rights because of union movements.

Everything in human history was a movement towards justice,peace, democracy, sovereignty.

You're sitting on your ass and typing this because someone far back in history created a movement for your rights today.

 


 INTP loner... .shy girl.. The devil loves me a bit too much. 

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8 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Alfonsoo by that logic, no movement would have ever existed in history, no social upheaval would have ever been possible

Today black people have rights because of civil rights movements.

Workers have rights because of union movements.

Everything in human history was a movement towards justice,peace, democracy, sovereignty.

You're sitting on your ass and typing this because someone far back in history created a movement for your rights today.

Civil rights and transcending survival are in entirely different dimensions. Incomparable.

The former can be successfully made into a social movement. The latter cannot.

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2 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Alfonsoo by that logic, no movement would have ever existed in history, no social upheaval would have ever been possible

Today black people have rights because of civil rights movements.

Workers have rights because of union movements.

Everything in human history was a movement towards justice,peace, democracy, sovereignty.

You're sitting on your ass and typing this because someone far back in history created a movement for your rights today.

Im jut saying movements are useless and even counterproductive when it comes to high consciousness work. Civil rights are on a completely different level.

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4 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

Civil rights and transcending survival are in entirely different dimensions. Incomparable.

The former can be successfully made into a social movement. The latter cannot.

We can never know. It's a thought experiment.

At some point in history, people thought even democracy was impossible.

Lot of things were considered impossible in the past.

 


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1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

We can never know. It's a thought experiment.

How would you do it? What would a survival transcending movement be like for you?

 

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Who is going to lead this movement? Don't be vague; identify someone (even if it's yourself). Just saying "we must" or "we should" is a cop-out answer. That is removing personal responsibility from this. If you want to transcend survival, lead the way. Be the example. Someone was in every single movement you've listed. 

And if that person does lead the charge, how? Do they have to force it on others? How will they ensure it's carried out properly?

Something must always be destroyed to create what is new. Trying to force a movement of "transcending survival" is about as antithetical as "waging war for peace." 

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Just now, Alfonsoo said:

How would you do it? What would a survival transcending movement be like for you?

Not a complete transcending of survival because that's literally impossible. 

However a partial way can be found where survival doesn't take up so much space in this world.

My plan is like this 

  • A small manageable human population that is not on a burden on the environment and resources of planet earth
  • Agriculture as a main occupation 
  • Significant reduction in capitalist systems and replacement with socialist methods of production
  • Removal of money and replacement with barter system of trade
  • If getting rid of money is not possible then equitable distribution of money so there are no rich and poor classes
  • Abolition of Elites. Zero wealth disparity
  • Everyone has to work according to their capacity. No competition. Only contribution. Everyone has work cut out for them as per their skill,ability, capacity etc
  • Survival is made easy by establishing Universal Basic Income or UBI. Which means you're always provided for regardless of your ability to work. However you're still encouraged to work to provide contribution to society. This can be done through community programming where people are encouraged to work and incentives are given in the form of Emotional/moral support by the community
  • Children are taught the importance of responsibility to society at a young age
  • No more competing for jobs or resources. Everything is available to everyone equally.
  • Focus on high consciousness and developing spiritual qualities
  • Less emphasis on success and Stage Orange lifestyle and competition.
  • More emphasis on loving each other and living in harmony and caring for each other
  • Crimes rates are significantly decreased through moral and social programming.
  • Crime rates are going to be low anyways when everyone has equal wealth .
  • People focus on meditation, spreading love, harmony and peace and protecting each other rather than outcompeting or rivaling each other.
  • No man/woman/family is allowed to have more than a designated amount of resources enough for human survival. This is so that there is no hoarding of land, jewelry, cars etc by one person.
  • Simple minimalist lifestyle is encouraged for all. 
  • Consumerism is discouraged so there is minimum harm to environment. 
  • Minimum use of technology so that there is minimum electronic wastage.
  • Open borders. All countries are governed by one central government that is spread everywhere through branches and units. One world. 
  • All races and religions are tolerated and all practices are followed in peace. 
  • No nationality or ethnic separation. All humanity considered one. 
  • Every person has the same rights as the other person. 
  • Since there is no fear of survival, humans will have the opportunity to focus on higher values and Spiritual work. Focus on high consciousness which involves no war, no battle, no violence, no disrespect,no abuse, no injustice, and no rivalry. No mob rule or mob lynching. One code of ethics for everyone. Anyone who disrupts peace should be punished. High Consciousness behaviour means high  tolerance, respect, care, love, peace, charity and responsibility to each other. Helping each other rather than competing with each other. 

 

 


 INTP loner... .shy girl.. The devil loves me a bit too much. 

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9 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Not a complete transcending of survival because that's literally impossible. 

However a partial way can be found where survival doesn't take up so much space in this world.

My plan is like this 

  • A small manageable human population that is not on a burden on the environment and resources of planet earth
  • Agriculture as a main occupation 
  • Significant reduction in capitalist systems and replacement with socialist methods of production
  • Removal of money and replacement with barter system of trade
  • If getting rid of money is not possible then equitable distribution of money so there are no rich and poor classes
  • Abolition of Elites. Zero wealth disparity
  • Everyone has to work according to their capacity. No competition. Only contribution. Everyone has work cut out for them as per their skill,ability, capacity etc
  • Survival is made easy by establishing Universal Basic Income or UBI. Which means you're always provided for regardless of your ability to work. However you're still encouraged to work to provide contribution to society. This can be done through community programming where people are encouraged to work and incentives are given in the form of Emotional/moral support by the community
  • Children are taught the importance of responsibility to society at a young age
  • No more competing for jobs or resources. Everything is available to everyone equally.
  • Focus on high consciousness and developing spiritual qualities
  • Less emphasis on success and Stage Orange lifestyle and competition.
  • More emphasis on loving each other and living in harmony and caring for each other
  • Crimes rates are significantly decreased through moral and social programming.
  • Crime rates are going to be low anyways when everyone has equal wealth .
  • People focus on meditation, spreading love, harmony and peace and protecting each other rather than outcompeting or rivaling each other.
  • No man/woman/family is allowed to have more than a designated amount of resources enough for human survival. This is so that there is no hoarding of land, jewelry, cars etc by one person.
  • Simple minimalist lifestyle is encouraged for all. 
  • Consumerism is discouraged so there is minimum harm to environment. 
  • Minimum use of technology so that there is minimum electronic wastage.
  • Open borders. All countries are governed by one central government that is spread everywhere through branches and units. One world. 
  • All races and religions are tolerated and all practices are followed in peace. 
  • No nationality or ethnic separation. All humanity considered one. 
  • Every person has the same rights as the other person. 
  • Since there is no fear of survival, humans will have the opportunity to focus on higher values and Spiritual work. Focus on high consciousness which involves no war, no battle, no violence, no disrespect,no abuse, no injustice, and no rivalry. No mob rule or mob lynching. One code of ethics for everyone. Anyone who disrupts peace should be punished. High Consciousness behaviour means high  tolerance, respect, care, love, peace, charity and responsibility to each other. Helping each other rather than competing with each other. 

 

 

Judging by the amount of things people are not allowed to do—possess X amount of resources, use huge amounts of tech, not live as separate nations, and not be considered an "elite"—it sounds like this plan would involve a hefty dose of violence to achieve. After all, how could you possibly enforce all of these mandates? Now you see how dictatorships emerge ;)

I don't say this just to be a devil's advocate (which I am being, no doubt). I say this as someone who has had similar thoughts in the past, but eventually abandoned them upon applying a heaping teaspoon of logic. If your goal is truly to abolish fear and competition, forcing a laundry list of changes on humanity will not solve anything.

These must be collective decisions that play out across centuries. And if people decide they don't want them, then what? Can you live with that? 

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Posted (edited)

17 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

 

  • A small manageable human population that is not on a burden on the environment and resources of planet earth.

 

Are you going to kill people? 

There is no other way.

17 minutes ago, Preety_India said:
  • Agriculture as a main occupation 
  • Significant reduction in capitalist systems and replacement with socialist methods of production
  • Removal of money and replacement with barter system of trade
  • If getting rid of money is not possible then equitable distribution of money so there are no rich and poor classes
  • Abolition of Elites. Zero wealth disparity
  • No more competing for jobs or resources. Everything is available to everyone equally.

 

 

This has failed hundreds and thousands of times it has been tried. In practice, this leads to mass starvation and thousands of percent increase in crime rate. Millions of deaths. The reason why the Socialism movement is a failure. 

17 minutes ago, Preety_India said:
  • Less emphasis on success and Stage Orange lifestyle and competition.

Most people on Earth want it. And most of the countries need it. Otherwise mass starvation and deaths for the less developed countries. Taking away basic human rights is not cool.

 

Edited by captainamerica

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@Preety_India This all reeks of your own personal flavor of survival ;) 

You only want all of this because you think that it'll minimize the hurt that you and your loved ones carry (while in the same breath, throwing away the needs and desires of others) ... survival101.

You're literally trying to survive while calling it "transcending survival."

It's a noble dream, but lacking perspectival awareness.

2 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

Taking away basic human rights is not cool.

YOINK xD

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4 minutes ago, captainamerica said:

Are you going to kill people? 

People have to stop having many children for the sake of environment. Not selfishly producing children like India 

 


 INTP loner... .shy girl.. The devil loves me a bit too much. 

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Posted (edited)

27 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Not a complete transcending of survival because that's literally impossible. 

However a partial way can be found where survival doesn't take up so much space in this world.

My plan is like this 

 

Cant you see all this is survival? 

Why would you concentrate in agriculture if no too survive?

Why would you make rights the same if not to survive?

Why would you limit how many goods/resources one can have if not to survive?

Why eliminate de 1% if not to survive?

Why teach responsibility if not to make a society survive?

Why discourage consumerism if not to survive ?

 

I hope you can see how all these items on your list are nothing but survival.

Edited by Alfonsoo

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Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

People have to stop having many children for the sake of environment. Not selfishly producing children like India 

 

And you say this because you don't want human kind, animals, your country, the world as you know it, or even  yourself to die. You identify with all these, you hold them dear and essential to your reality. This is no transcendence of survival. IT's just survival propagating more survival

Edited by Alfonsoo

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