johnlocke18

Leo not being careful with teachings?

109 posts in this topic

@kinesin

Yes it does. You are not seeing the message I received. You are doing the same thing again in posting that, and saying and or insinuating that it is. You can refute this, that’s up to you. I’m just sharing what transpired. 

I’m not saying that is the message I received and hindsight is 20/20. I am saying that is not the message I received, and people often say one thing, not giving any context of what they’re experiencing, and then after the fact express intensely, with you now ‘in the story’, as the focal point. That has a potential ring of talking poorly about him, but that is not what I’m saying or the sentiment. Keep in mind, I am the other end of a pm, not a family member, not someone who ever even saw or talked with him. And again, I offered to talk face to face with everyone involved. Still do. 

If you can put yourself in the shoes for a second, what evidence could there really be? When I saw it, I pm’d Leo telling him exactly what transpired. That pm didn’t make the headlines. It’s not nearly as intriguing, the truth rarely is in matters like this.  I can not reverse an edit to print or screenshot a message any more than you could. I did also email a user here as well, as I was talking it through trying to wrap my head around where his head might have been. Ultimately I can not know. Also, keep in mind, there was a public post / thread, which seemed quite literal as well. I didn’t see that thread until long after receiving the message. 

Also, I don’t think it’s as black & white as to say I couldn’t have or shouldn’t have noticed some warning sign(s). Honestly I also feel like I could, or more so, should have. That’s on me and I’m still eatin it. Yet, the addition of approx 80% of the text to the message leaves me generally wishing I had the unedited version to compare, to see with some black & white exactly what I might have missed. And yet, among all of this, there aren’t even any separate selves, and expecting all-grey to be any black & white just in my opinion, brings us all back to self-realization and it’s potential for this place at large. 

Also, what I say is never ‘on you’ because you participate in this forum, anymore than what Leo says is ‘on me’. 

Also, I’m being a bit ‘personal’ toward you, more so in the prior comment, and I apologize for that. 


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Posted (edited)

14 minutes ago, Nahm said:

When I saw it, I pm’d Leo telling him exactly what transpired. That pm didn’t make the headlines. It’s not nearly as intriguing, the truth rarely is in matters like this.

There was no 'headlines', the screenshot I posted was simply a screenshot which was shared in the thread announcing SoonHei's death.  If you want to show another side of the story by sharing the PM you sent to Leo for example or giving more information about how the comments looked to you when you first recieved and responded to them, nobody would stop you from doing it.

I should clarify, I'm not trying to put any undue responsibility on you.  Infact I almost feel pulled into such a polar position as if by the magnetic effect of the position you yourself are expressing.  You defend, so I observe myself stepping forward to poke.  There's nothing personal about it, it's a systematic interaction.

Edited by kinesin

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@kinesin

I can certainly appreciate that, but really to what end. There’s nothing to defend, I’m just sharing what transpired at my end because I saw your comment. 


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13 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@kinesin

I can certainly appreciate that, but really to what end. There’s nothing to defend, I’m just sharing what transpired at my end because I saw your comment. 

There are no ends, only processes.  In my view some elements of Leo's clumsy delivery of these teachings has opened the door to chaos, of which SoonHei's death is one manifestation and these ongoing discussions are more manifesations.  I think really the only thing that'll free the community from this issue is if Leo goes through a series of experiences which shape him into a more open, empathetic and considerate person who is less of a target for being accused of acting like a cult leader, and less susceptible to being interpreted in dangerous ways.

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@kinesinFolks aren’t experiencing Leo though (in this regard), only the videos / content / delivery, and interpretation / understanding of. 


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@Nahm  That goes without saying.  When I speak of 'Leo' I'm not referring to his core being (which doesn't even exist) but to his presentation and the ways in which he interacts with the world.  A person is defined in part by their interactions and behaviours, and that's the dimension in which Leo could benefit from further development of some compassion.

He believes that he is compassionate and accepting of opposing views, sure, but there exists a perception that he's actually entrenched in his own thoughts and too quick to outright reject opposing views, and also too blunt/harsh in his manner when doing so.  This is the sense in which his critics argue that he behaves like an authoritarian king of his own domain (aka, a cult leader in the most negative sense), and if he worked on those aspects of himself, he wouldn't attract such criticisms.  Likewise, if he worked on this issue and stopped acting so sure of himself, he'd no longer project such a strong image of being a wise guru who knows the absolute truth of reality - because this image is what leads so many vulnerable and impressionable people to adopting his teachings so uncritically.

Leo may read this and believe that I'm saying this out of hate or desire to take him down, but it's actually borne from a desire to see him fully actualize himself.  Isn't the ultimate goal of personal development to shape oneself into an entity who floats effortlessly through reality while experiencing as much love and bringing as much positivity into being as possible, at all times?  If a person's actions, speech or manner lead to discordance and chaos, isn't that a warning sign from the universe that we need to adapt ourselves?  I want Leo's teachings, his manner of delivery, this community etc to be in genuine concordance with what is true, good and pure.  If that could be achieved, the criticisms wouldn't even arise within the minds of the critics, and such chaotic outcomes wouldn't occur.

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@kinesin

I didn’t mean you’re talking about his “core being”, I mean you’re not actually taking about “his interactions and behaviors”, you’re frame of reference is the content of videos. (I assume. Maybe you’re besties for all I know). 


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NONDUALITY LOA  My Youtube Channel  THE TRUE NATURE

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Posted (edited)

I think the most important thing to do is this... 

If Leos is making you ill, then walk away from his work. 

He is one guy, and who knows what his real intentions, shadows, short sightedness and lack of holism actually is.

I notice myself wanting him to be someone he is not, I want him to be more open and answer and explain some of the claims he makes in his God realization video etc.. 

uliminately we are our main responsibility and Spirituallity is a bigger subject than ever explain in his videos, or that can be realized by watching his work alone. It's just one perspective. We need more experience.

There is a lot of dangers here. Some of what he says and then how he treats people who ask questions, for example about solipsism etc make me question his integrity as a teacher. I think his videos are good works. But, him as a person I don't think he has the integrity I would expect...

They are videos, and a booklist and a forum. He isn't a Guru or your coach, or your teacher.

Sure, he will answer what he considers serious questions... But even then he might not. He sometimes just slumps people off or projects on them. It's the nature of things.

Just, expand your horizons. Do the work. The work he promotes is really powerful grounded stuff. But, like anyone he isn't perfect. I think anyway.

I love Leo, he is an amazing person. But, we are all a little faulty as limited mortals.

Edited by Thought Art

"Now here's the Sun and it's alright, Now here's the Moon and It's alright..But every-time you close your eyes... Lies" -Arcade Fire Rebellion

Personal Growth Vlog - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzVkdPNRrNT7SN1aoco2MdA

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, nuwu said:

1626393907128.png

There's a "VR" missing from that quote somewhere :D... for maximum impact

Edited by Chris365

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