Leo not being careful with teachings?

[johnlocke18]

@SgtPepper No he doesn’t. He puts the disclaimers in maybe 3 seconds of the video, then carelessly encourages the exact opposite of what the warnings say the entire video. Literally just watch them without bias or assuming I’m deluded  and you’ll see that’s just how it is. 

[johnlocke18]

@Adrian325 “There’s women out there that will bring you to your knees.” You get mad like a child when I criticize someone you look up to for problems he’s factually caused and start hurling  assumptions and acting condescending.  Sure maybe there is, but you’re the one being egoic here. I point out things he’s factually done, then you turn it into a game of “oh I’m above you because I went to prison” which has nothing to do with what I said and a flat out assumption.  You’re painting others with your own insecurities. 

Edited July 15, 2021 by johnlocke18

[johnlocke18]

@Adrian325 And sure I did assume you sit around meditating, but that’s because you literally follow a dude that preaches that. You’re just making full blown assumptions when I’m criticizing factual problems he’s caused 

[Andyforreal]

54 minutes ago, johnlocke18 said:

@Thought Art @Andyforreal @OBEler @Dayo @Thought Art You guys are just justifying Leo making mistakes that aren’t okay to make, multiple times. Influencing ruined lives and a suicide. It’s like back when there were slaves the justification was just “that’s just how it is” which is what you guys are doing. You can’t change your views on Leo after he’s become corrupt, because you think highly of him, and then you project that closed mindedness on anyone that questions him. Then, you just try to make it out that they’re deluded and make assumptions. Yawn

[johnlocke18]

@Andyforreal Lol so you don’t care about other people whats your point? Your guru isn’t perfect but if you want to pretend he has no flaws then have fun in fantasy world. 

[nuwu]

@Thought Art  Spiritual teachings formatted in a direct style are prone to stronger belief or delusion, but the softer narratives don't have the same scope of reach. It's like to nuke a system of ideas when the gentle approach doesn't work. It's kind of hit or miss, but in-between states are highly undesirable in corner cases. Leo won't be able to help everyone in the short term, but imo his art can be fundamental to new types of society. State transitions create suffering at all scales, such that the ego can even describe the whole premise as psychopathic. If someone rolls out a cure for cancer with side effects, you wouldn't judge the efficiency by cherry picking the bad outcomes.

But I agree Leo used to not put enough emphasis on how careful you have to be with psychedelics. I think he doesn't realize how bad things can be for some people, and how much fears it's possible to hold. For whom meditation, mental and psychological health should come first. At the same time, not coming up with a plain and confident answer is like rubbing salt in the wounds, so I don't even know if there is a better approach.

Edited July 16, 2021 by nuwu

[Andyforreal]

1. Leo is not my guru or anyone i just follow his work out of interest, is Leo perfect? Obviously not

2. People i care about is my problem, but i sure as hell won't help anyone with my whining here

3. This is the freedom you have to live with, Leo's work is his personal thing that he shares with people who have the same interest, i take full responsibility for being here and taking things into account, i don't want to command anyone in their work because im a guest here, i give Leo the freedom of choice to evaluate the situation and to change if he finds he did something wrong

I hope we settled this matter, good luck to you

2 hours ago, johnlocke18 said:

@Andyforreal Lol so you don’t care about other people whats your point? Your guru isn’t perfect but if you want to pretend he has no flaws then have fun in fantasy world. 

2 hours ago, johnlocke18 said:

@Andyforreal

3 hours ago, johnlocke18 said:

• @Thought Art @Andyforreal @OBEler @Dayo @Thought Art

[OneHandClap]

1 hour ago, nuwu said:

 

But I agree Leo used to not put enough emphasis on how careful you have to be with psychedelics. I think he doesn't realize how bad things can be for some people, and how much fears it's possible to hold. For whom meditation, mental and psychological health should come first. At the same time, not coming up with a plain and confident answer is like rubbing salt in the wounds, so I don't even know if there is a better approach.

I agree with this. Though Leo has cautioned people against taking psychs when they are being frivolous or unprepared, it's also true to say that not everybody reacts well to them. Even Terrence McKenna had one bad shrooms trip that threw everything he knew into a blender. There are no guarantees with psychedelics; even if 1000 go well, one bad one could torpedo the ship and distort the prior wisdom. Yes, there are "challenging" trips, but there are also trips that bring people to psych wards and cause long-lasting damage to their lives.

 

EDIT: And before the tired argument of "Hey, anything can happen with anything, people die from tripping on the sidewalk...," I'd like to say that yes, everything has a degree of risk. But the odds of someone having a complete derealization/psychotic episode and fucking up their "normal" life is magnitudes greater with psychedelics than most daily activities. 

Edited July 16, 2021 by OneHandClap

[johnlocke18]

21 hours ago, Andyforreal said:

1. Leo is not my guru or anyone i just follow his work out of interest, is Leo perfect? Obviously not

2. People i care about is my problem, but i sure as hell won't help anyone with my whining here

3. This is the freedom you have to live with, Leo's work is his personal thing that he shares with people who have the same interest, i take full responsibility for being here and taking things into account, i don't want to command anyone in their work because im a guest here, i give Leo the freedom of choice to evaluate the situation and to change if he finds he did something wrong

I hope we settled this matter, good luck t

You’re doing exactly what I said you did. Again. You’re justifying something that’s not right by saying he’s not perfect. You can say the same thing about even the most evil people. Then you’re trying to make it out like I’m “just whining” when his words are factually ruining lives and causing suicides. He’s a corrupt leader and you’re saying you can’t “command” him in his work. You’re basically saying you can’t say anything because  he’s an authority. It’s a real problem and I’m speaking out against it.

[johnlocke18]

@Andyforreal And you say whining on here won’t help anyone. Yeah if people on his forum consider and actually commit suicide it can help them think twice about him being an unquestionable authority. Which is what you believe saying you have no right to speak out against him or “command” him. Yet he can say whatever he wants and you take it in without question. You say he’s not your guru but you’re literally on his forum following him. So, yes, he is in a way. 

[Thought Art]

No matter how careful Leo is, due to the nature of learning, trial and error and self deception people are going to make critical errors. You can spend time around Leo and his confidence but that does not mean you are mature, understand what he is saying and aren't distorting his teachings for your own spiritual and ego games. He can't fool proof the teachings. A fool can easily turn wisdom into a donkey dick smashing through your intestines and killing you.

Check out my post on The importance of Gourd-crafting.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Thought Art

[johnlocke18]

@OneHandClap Which is why I’m speaking up. It’s a really big problem that he doesn’t put enough emphasis on it if it influenced even on suicide. 

[johnlocke18]

@Thought Art And there’s a difference between a fool and someone mentally ill, which Leo knows he has a following of. You’re saying it doesn’t matter how careful he is when it really would save thousands of lives if he just worded things differently. Which he smarts off if anyone tries to tell him to. Saying stuff like “you won’t fully awaken until you physically die” or “you either care more about 5meo or your family” is just completely careless of him and ruins lives. You can’t justify that or just say I’m just being a snowflake unless you’re delusional. 

Edited July 16, 2021 by johnlocke18

[Thought Art]

9 minutes ago, johnlocke18 said:

@Thought Art Again, you’re justifying it. There’s a difference between making a mistake here and there, and actually ruining lives and causing a suicide, then not taking any criticism afterwards. If he’s passively telling a dude to choose psychedelics over his wife, then he’s still a big problem. And yes he basically said that go read it. He didn’t word it that way but that’s what he meant. 

Yeah well. Leo has elements of being a Zen Devil. You should expect such. Don't give your authority to some guy on the internet. He is a limited human being who lacks social sensitivity especially on the forum. He admits this to be a weakness. 

Once he made a joke on the forum saying "whenever you would smoke weed smoke 5meodmt" Which I took seriously. I wouldn't expect someone so wise to be so fucking inconsiderate. I assumed he respected the substance as much as he expects others to do. I failed to be responsible here. But, I am just as prone to self deception as anyone. 

He has many peoples lives in his hands and he can't fuck around. You made your bed, so commit 100% to being of integrity Leo. We love and need you to be the best you can be.

He has a lot of responsibility and should ultimately be held accountable. I would like to see him more vulnerable. But, I am sure he is so steeled from years of interacting with thousands of people... He has a strong fucking will more than anyone I've ever seen. Like, he could be a president... Strong man.

He is young, foolish and likely over his head.

He has no way of testing how his videos will affect people, and he is likely to blame you for 'miss applying spiritual teachings'... Which is your responsibility, but also he is responsible to. This who game is dangerous and we should expect such. You are literally playing with your entire reality. 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Thought Art

[johnlocke18]

@Thought Art You’re doing what I said the other guy did. I didn’t once mention anything about me. I’m speaking out for the mentally ill people on here that follow him like my friend that went homeless. And you’re not in the position to give that advice when you’re here on his forum going out of your way to follow him. 

[Thought Art]

1 minute ago, johnlocke18 said:

@Thought Art You’re doing what I said the other guy did. I didn’t once mention anything about me. I’m speaking out for the mentally ill people on here that follow him like my friend that went homeless. And you’re not in the position to give that advice when you’re here on his forum going out of your way to follow him. 

Sorry, I wasn't saying anything about you specifically. Trying to make general statements for all of us, regardless of teacher or influencer or field, or school of thought, or religion, or perspective, or interpretations. 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Thought Art

[johnlocke18]

@Thought Art Saying “that’s just the way it is” is the reason so many corrupt things through history were accepted. People need to speak out against this crap if it’s ruining lives. 

[johnlocke18]

@Thought Art But I respect you’re not holding a shallow position on it. 

[Thought Art]

8 minutes ago, johnlocke18 said:

@Thought Art Saying “that’s just the way it is” is the reason so many corrupt things through history were accepted. People need to speak out against this crap if it’s ruining lives. 

I completely agree. I think his teachings are likely ruining some lives, improving others. He seems to be off in his own world doing the teachings he wants to without checking in with us, doing polls, asking us questions, seeing what our needs are etc. He is in his own world I think too much and the nature of some of his teachings are misleading.

Then, when people make mistakes he gets scared because his brand is on the line. 

There is a reason the medicine science etc works the way it does because it has so many risks. He can shit on modern post secondary institutions but they are far more powerful for ensuring that people actually understand what is being taught. That is why there is testing, standardized testing etc.

Esoterics are more challenging and inherently dangerous because he is trying to teach a large audience of people how to reprogram their own minds. He is asking a shit tonne from his audiences. 

People don't know what they are getting themselves into. I didn't. My misinterpretations and applications of what he has told me has hurt me in pretty big ways. But, I was a fool already hurting my life before his teachings so, I am not blaming Leo.

There is no way of knowing you interpreted him correctly. None, there is no back and forth and no accountability. The power dynamic is also strange. The forum has so many limitations as well.

He could be asking us more directly what we are experiencing etc... But, he is so fucking steeled and confident, and egotistical he does not do this. He doesn't get how naive, epistemologically fragile we are.  

Some of his metaphysical videos are so sloppy, confusing and distorting.. You can really lose your mind from them.

Something needs to be done, but I have to observe him and learn more before I can know what.

I love Leo man, but I love God and the planet as a whole. 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Thought Art

[johnlocke18]

@Thought Art Yeah. He literally just needs to adjust his teachings instead of getting into arguments and talking down on anyone that disagrees. It’s so infuriating he’s causing such things just because he can’t adjust his wording a little. I think from where he used to follow pickup he’s got it drilled into his head not to take criticism because of the whole authority thing. It’s a bit of naive ness on his part not realizing he was following a bunch of slobs that think they’re a big deal for being able to go from socially awkward to acting normal.