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Husseinisdoingfine

Neo Fascist Era of American Politics? / Fascist Demonstration in Florida

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Posted (edited)

Wonderful segment by Joy Reid. Ever since Trump, we have seen an increase in hate groups. Hate and Fascism are becoming more and more trendy as we saw in 2016, so many young people have been suckered into the alt right, thanks to websites and YouTube (YouTube far right pipeline), and 4chan. What Malcom Nance is alluding to in this MSNBC segment, is that we are now in an era of American politics of emerging neo-Fascism. The protests seen below, the Fascists explicitly endorse Trump in their chants.

Personally, I like to think of the emergence of Fascism in America as BLUE refusing to die, so it's kicking and screaming. Accurate assessment?

In other news. On the fourth of July, 2021, a Fascist group called, 'Patriot Front' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Front), held a demonstration in Florida. They were chanting slogans like: 'The election was stolen'

News article: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/masked-white-supremacists-run-angry-onlookers-philadelphia-police-say-n1273096

P.S. Images below is the Patriot Front logo, shows you all you need to know about them.

Pflogo.png

 

 

PF%20bg%20American%20Nationalism%2013%20

Edited by Husseinisdoingfine

لا إله إلا الله، وليو رسول الله

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I see the problems when watching these segments that they demonize the Republican voter base too much and appeal to emotional outrage and fear of their intended demographic which are the coastal and urban elites, liberals, and progressives. Here is a nice sum up by Chirs Hedges what these media and broadcast companies do:

''The growing resentment of the dispossessed is stoked and fed by a mass media that has divided the public into competing demographics. Media platforms target one demographic feeding its opinions and proclivities back to it, while surely demonizing the demographic on the other side of the political divide, this has proved commercially successful but it has also split the country into irreconcilable warring factions that can no longer communicate. Truth and verifiable facts have been sacrificed. To goal is to herd the public back to democratic aligned news organizations such as the New York Times, the Washington Post, and CNN but these media outlets which serve corporate advertisers have rendered the lives of the working class and the poor invisible and they are reviled as the ruling elites themselves. The loss of credibility has given rise to new often spontaneous groups as well as the lunatic fringe that embraces conspiracy theories such as Q anon. They traffic an emotional outrage often replacing one outrage with another the create new forms of identity to replace the identity lost by tens of millions of Americans who have been cast aside. The emotional outrage can be harnessed for laudable causes but is too often ephemeral it transforms political debate into grievance, protests at best, and more often televised spectacle. These flashed mobs pose no threat to the elites unless they build disciplined organizational structures which take years and articulate a vision of what can come next. This emotional outrage that put Trump in the White House also stokes the fires of American sadism especially among the white working class that feels dethroned and abandoned.''

- from the talk American Sadism by Chris Hedges.


"Keep your eye on the ball. " - Michael Brooks 

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While it's the easiest thing in the world to point to Conservatives and Republicans as responsible for the recent resurgence of fascism, a more systemic perspective realizes that none of these ideologies exist in a vacuum, but instead wax and wane in popularity due to social conditions, along with the level of development that's present in a given population.

While there's no one factor that can definitively be pointed to, I would argue that there are several societal trends that provide mutually reinforcing reasons why this is happening now (as opposed to 20 or 50 years ago).

  • A demographic anxiety and accompanying ego backlash that tends to happen whenever the dominant group in society (in this case white males) is poised to lose thier privileged status. We saw this happen in response to every major Civil Rights advancement throughout America's history, and we are seeing it happen now. Within 25 years (or one Generation) its projected that Whites will no longer be the largest ethic group in America, due to demographic changes.
  • Add to that a declining standard of living for working class Americans due to Automation, Globalization, and the erosion of Support Structures that ordinary people depended on for class mobility, something which has hit working class whites especially hard. Not because 'whites are being discriminated against' or any such nonsense, but because they no longer monopolize all of the economic opportunities in the country, and more and more whites are being exposed to the same types of economic deprivation that's been common for communities of color throughout America's history.
  • Add to racial and economic anxieties a profit driven news media that's incentivized to exacerbate social divisions in the country, and the emergence of Social Media which corrals everyone in to Echo Chambers, making a troubling problem even worse
  • Then add to that a corporate and moneyed Elite that has figured out a way to use racial and cultural resentment as a vehicle for acquiring and holding on to political power, by misdirecting attention from blatantly plutocratic policies by packaging it with an emotionally gratifying politics of white nationalism 
  • And then add to all that a political system with a number of structural weaknesses which allow aggrieved members from the dominant ethnic and cultural group to have an outsized voice in the political system, relative to thier numbers

"The mind is inherently embodied.
Thought is mostly unconscious.
Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical." - George Lakoff

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Posted (edited)

31 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

 

Boy, these Twitter posts and takes are, in my opinion, really not helping to heal the divide within your country. With emotional outcry #fnazis trending, I really don't think that shaming these people and groups will help bridge the divide between them and is an effective way of bridging the gap between these warring culture war factions. As @DocWatts said and listed in his post the underlying structural causes and calls for substantial economic reforms and justice need to be advocated for and put a systematic and joint unified pressure on the political class and ruling oligarchic elite within the country to force them to carry them out with mass, systematic and unified civil disobedience and protests as per the aftermath of 1929. 

Edited by Milos Uzelac

"Keep your eye on the ball. " - Michael Brooks 

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Personally, I think former Fascists should be treated as cult survivors. With the same love and compassion. The precise reason why Fascist movements are becoming more popular is because of the collapse of civil society. The family unit I melting, and people’s sense of community and belonging is diminishing .

https://patriotfront.us/


لا إله إلا الله، وليو رسول الله

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5 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Personally, I think former Fascists should be treated as cult survivors. With the same love and compassion. The precise reason why Fascist movements are becoming more popular is because of the collapse of civil society. The family unit I melting, and people’s sense of community and belonging is diminishing .

https://patriotfront.us/

I largely concur with this. If you've ever listened to anyone whose job it is to deprogram people who've been recruited Hate Groups, when they speak about why people join up with these groups the reasons sound remarkably similar to how people end up getting recruited in to something like an inner city Gang.

In both cases people don't end up getting recruited into these organizations because their life is going awesome. They are attractive to people precisely because they offer a means to meet that person's unmet deficiency needs (be that self esteem and a sense of belonging, physical safety, etc). Hate Groups end up serving as a proxy sort of family for people who grew up in broken homes or more generally in a hostile, shitty environment. The actual ideology of these groups is Secondary to providing these individuals with a sense of esteem, belonging, and purpose.

While these groups obviously must be opposed, the compassionate (and wise) response here is to offer Individuals who've fallen prey to these groups a way out, namely by offering support structures to help these folks get thier lives in order once they've escaped.


"The mind is inherently embodied.
Thought is mostly unconscious.
Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical." - George Lakoff

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Posted (edited)

On 06/07/2021 at 6:15 PM, Husseinisdoingfine said:

4chan

Most /pol/tars are called out when leaving the containment zone, so I'm not sure why this weebsite is always incriminated as a whole. Obviously the behavioral virus and magnification of survival biases are omnipresent, but it's not "that bad" (aside from that one board). Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, have their own load of c**p.

The irony is, the whole concept of imageboard is bonkers (at least in our society). The point of being anonymous is to not discriminate against identity, but somehow it flips back into itself and most of the culture becomes meme warfare. Users who don't like hateful environment are smoothly wiped out by the parroting of bullying catchphrases such as "f****t" or whatever is the next meme allowing you to acquire attention.

Edited by nuwu

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I don't see Fascism as stage Blue. I find it to be more Stage Red than blue.

Stage Blue tends to focus on Constitution and Equality 

Whereas stage Red focuses on Dominance.

Here I see a lot of aggression from white nationalists, the need to dominate and acquire power which is reminiscent of stage Red communities in human history.

 


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11 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I don't see Fascism as stage Blue. I find it to be more Stage Red than blue.

Fascism is RED/blue


لا إله إلا الله، وليو رسول الله

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Posted (edited)

@Husseinisdoingfine

I believe there are many dark parts in America that are still deeply Stage Red.

And these parts are slowly turning into black holes trying to gulp down America.

I also think that the need for survival throughout the globe is making humanity selfish and materialistic and stage Red and stage Orange. 

So this effect is more prominently seen in America.

The need for survival as @DocWatts pointed out is probably driving these rural people in America more and more to stage Red. 

That's why transcending survival is so important.

It seems as though instead of  moving forward as collective humanity we're moving backwards due to survival challenges of the current century.

The result of this is clearly visible in the fact that a con artist like Trump got elected in the first place.

The fact that Trump got elected is a huge sign that there is something wrong in the system and it seems that this is just the beginning.

Is there anything positive about American politics currently ?

 

Edited by Preety_India

 INFJ loner... .shy girl.. 

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@Husseinisdoingfine @DocWatts

A question that bothers my mind is what would've happened if corona virus pandemic didn't exist, would Trump have been re-elected and what would America look like if Trump was still the president ?

How would that impact the trajectory of the future of America in terms of political and ethnic sentiment?

 


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17 hours ago, Preety_India said:

@Husseinisdoingfine @DocWatts

A question that bothers my mind is what would've happened if corona virus pandemic didn't exist, would Trump have been re-elected and what would America look like if Trump was still the president ?

How would that impact the trajectory of the future of America in terms of political and ethnic sentiment?

In US Politics the incumbent candidate (including the President) winning re-election is the norm or default here (because of a number of structural advantages that incumbents enjoy over challengers).

When an incumbent President loses a re-election, it's usually attributable to something unusual and specific (either the economy is in a slump, or something dramatic has happened that has become negatively associated with the incumbent administration).

If not for the awful job that the Trump administration did in handling Covid, it's highly likely that Trump would have been re-elected; because that's the default, and plenty of awful Presidents have gone on to win second terms (such as George W Bush).

Even though only about a third of the country actually likes Trump, because of antiquated structural elements in our system that third of the country has an outsized political influence in national elections.

Had Trump been elected again our democracy would be in an even worse place than it is now, but his absence doesn't mean that the larger systemic issues that put him in to the White House are being addressed in any substantial way.

Delving in to those larger systemic issues would be worthy of a thread on its own, but in short thier root causes have to do with the challenges posed by Late Stage Capitalism as America is poised to transition to SD-Green within perhaps a generation, along with added racial anxieties as white males are poised to lose much of thier privileged status due to shifting demographics (whites are projected to no longer be a majority in America within perhaps three decades).

The next two to three decades are going to be an extremely difficult and dangerous time for American democracy, as democratic norms are breaking down under the strain of authoritarian Right Wing populism. 


"The mind is inherently embodied.
Thought is mostly unconscious.
Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical." - George Lakoff

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14 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

In US Politics the incumbent candidate (including the President) winning re-election is the norm or default here (because of a number of structural advantages that incumbents enjoy over challengers).

When an incumbent President loses a re-election, it's usually attributable to something unusual and specific (either the economy is in a slump, or something dramatic has happened that has become negatively associated with the incumbent administration).

If not for the awful job that the Trump administration did in handling Covid, it's highly likely that Trump would have been re-elected; because that's the default, and plenty of awful Presidents have gone on to win second terms (such as George W Bush).

Even though only about a third of the country actually likes Trump, because of antiquated structural elements in our system that third of the country has an outsized political influence in national elections.

Had Trump been elected again our democracy would be in an even worse place than it is now, but his absence doesn't mean that the larger systemic issues that put him in to the White House are being addressed in any substantial way.

Delving in to those larger systemic issues would be worthy of a thread on its own, but in short thier root causes have to do with the challenges posed by Late Stage Capitalism as America is poised to transition to SD-Green within perhaps a generation, along with added racial anxieties as white males are poised to lose much of thier privileged status due to shifting demographics (whites are projected to no longer be a majority in America within perhaps three decades).

The next two to three decades are going to be an extremely difficult and dangerous time for American democracy, as democratic norms are breaking down under the strain of authoritarian Right Wing populism. 

@Husseinisdoingfine @DocWatts

would you then say that it's the beginning of fascism in America with Trump' election marking the foundation ?

 

 


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18 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Husseinisdoingfine @DocWatts

would you then say that it's the beginning of fascism in America with Trump' election marking the foundation ?

I'd say that while Trump's election emboldened fascist-adjacent elements that were already present at the fringes of American society, Trump himself did not lay the foundations for fascism so much as Capitalize upon a radicalization pipeline that was already in place.

In many ways the resurgence in fascism we're seeing right now is the logical endpoint of decades of Right Wing propaganda (such as Fox News), and the radicalizing effect of repeatedly emphasizing that minorities and coastal elites are taking over the country.

This radicalization pipeline has in large part been driven by plutocratic elements that have a financial incentive to capitalize upon divisions in the country, and as a vehicle to aquire political power.


"The mind is inherently embodied.
Thought is mostly unconscious.
Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical." - George Lakoff

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Posted (edited)

45 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@DocWatts who is paying them ?

How does this money trail work?

Instrumental to the conditions of Late Stage Capitalism where all of this is taking place, is capture of the political system by vested interests to get favorable legislation passed.

One of the main ways this happens is through Lobbying, which is essentially a form of legalized bribery where a Corporation or Billionaire will spend millions to influence the outcome of elections, with the expectation that the politicians they donated to will pursue policy that's favorable to the donor's interests (such as corporate tax cuts and deregulation).

This can also take the form of media campaigns meant to misinform the public (such as the fossil industry's disinformation efforts in regards to Climate Change), or regulatory agency Capture (for example getting an Oil Lobbyist appointed to head the Environmental Protection Agency).

Right wing economic policy (which is essentially just a transfer of wealth from working and middle class people to the wealthy) has nothing tangible to offer ordinary people that will make thier lives better, but they can tap in to social anxieties and resentments (around issues such as white resentment of civil rights advances, for example), and use this to build a base of support to get elected.

Edited by DocWatts

"The mind is inherently embodied.
Thought is mostly unconscious.
Abstract concepts are largely metaphorical." - George Lakoff

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Posted (edited)

On 7/7/2021 at 8:42 AM, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Personally, I think former Fascists should be treated as cult survivors. With the same love and compassion.

As somebody who has been on the inside, 100% this. Leftists screaming at me and calling me evil would only further entrench my position when I was in this mindset.

It's only people looking upon you with sympathy and engaging in an honest conversation that can pull someone out. That means making yourself so open-minded that you risk getting pulled into the extreme right yourself if you're wrong. That's a very dangerous thing to do if you haven't done your research and come with counter-points to all their arguments.

You need to treat these people like they're family members that have been sucked into Scientology. They aren't intentionally looking to be evil... they think they're doing what's best for their families and society.

It's not a one-and-done either. I still find myself wavering and almost getting pushed back in by polarizing news stories.

When you come out of it, the risk of swinging too far and getting radicalized to the left is a serious concern too. I had to catch myself from doing that once I was deradicalized too. The Thought Slime, Noncompete, Breadtube kinda stuff Leo has been posting on his blog lately is almost as dangerous as neo-nazi podcasts IMO. It will start you down an opposite but equally dark path to the fascist/neonazi one that starts with Jordan Peterson, Molyneux, Lauren Southern, etc. The communists aren't joking when they say to eat the rich, any more than people getting pulled into the extreme right by memes are. The only sane people are somewhere in the middle.

Edited by Yarco

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Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, Preety_India said:

@DocWatts who is paying them ?

How does this money trail work?

I think one of better books on this subject is this one:

Dark Money: The Hidden History of the Billionaires Behind the Rise of the Radical Right

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/27833494-dark-money

 

And just a small example of how this works, a look behind the scenes of Ben Shapiro:

https://legacy.tyt.com/2018/07/31/ben-shapiro-owns-the-libs-but-who-owns-him/

 

Btw. Just for clarity, people like the Rupert Murdoch and the Koch brothers who are funding all this "culture war" propaganda don't actually care about any of these issues themselves. They are fanatic libertarian ideologues (Orange) interested only in money and power, who are engaged in a divide and conquer strategy by distracting people from caring about systemic issues like inequality and climate change. That's why they've pulled all the stops in an effort to demonize stage Green, who are the only threat to their power. I don't think they particularly like racist or religious bigotry, but if it benefits their bottom line that is what they will promote.

Edited by Stomatopod

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