Does localized consciousness (the self) dissolve naturally with time?

[WelcometoReality]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

Even a shift happens, and the ego somehow dissolves and it becomes obvious what you are, or what you are not, there is limitation. you can go deeper

Yes, a shift into no-self is just the first step. Then there is the seeing through of layers of conditioning in the body-mind. 

[Nahm]

24 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

in meditation there is some need for control, which is translated into thoughts.

In meditation, there are thoughts which are translated into need for control.

What is an Emmet and a Bricksburg without legos? 

[Inliytened1]

21 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

As physical matter begins to fall apart through time, is the same true of localized forms of consciousness? Does the self undergo some form of entropy?

AKA when material forms with localized experience first come into being, the separation is at its most intense, and the bonds weaken with time until the structure falls apart?

It dissolves (otherwise known as enlightenment) when you become directly conscious, via self inquiry, that the self or localized consciousness (form) was an illusion - that the self was an illusion.  You will never be able to pinpoint it because it's not actual.  Once this is directly realized you will stop identifying with the self and it will cease to exist for you because it was illusory.  You can then (in the same awakening or in a different one) realize directly that you are Actuality itself/Awareness itself, AKA nfinite Consciousness.  That's enlightenment in a nutshell - but these realizations are actual at the level of Pure Being...( Mystical / kundalini, etc) not conceptual.  You shall become a mystic

 

[Breakingthewall]

19 minutes ago, Nahm said:

In meditation, there are thoughts which are translated into need for control

Do you think so? I'd say that as you need control (or you are the need of control), thought arises, but it's difficult to say

[RMQualtrough]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

If separate physical things fell apart, there’d then be more parts. If the belief in separate things falls apart… non-separation, or wholeness, Truth, already is. 

I thought about this, but I don't like the model as much, because it does not account for how localized selves (ports of consciousness through which experience takes place) are directly affected by alterations to the physical elements.

If you class it like God's mind the dreamer, material universe the dreamed, self mind localized in the dream, that model accounts for everything.

You have to put the appearance of duality somewhere anyway since that exists in any location where experience of any sort happens. So I prefer this model.

Edited June 24, 2021 by RMQualtrough

[WelcometoReality]

10 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Do you think so? I'd say that as you need control (or you are the need of control), thought arises, but it's difficult to say

Maybe see if you can pin point the need of control to a feeling in the body?

[Nahm]

@Breakingthewall

The definitions are thoughts, while there is no thinker of thoughts. The lips can not kiss the lips, the nose can not smell the nose, the eyes can not see the eyes, the mind can not control the mind, just as thoughts can not define awareness.

[WelcometoReality]

@Inliytened1 What about the conditionings in the body?

[Inliytened1]

Just now, WelcometoReality said:

@Inliytened1 What about the conditionings in the body?

Can you elaborate?

[VeganAwake]

3 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

It arises and is seen for what it is. Without identification to it which is believing that it is me ("it" points to a thought or feeling). And when it's seen for what it is it passes away.

?

It's not a denial or detachment from all thoughts and feelings. It's just a seeing of the "conditioned pattern" for what it is.

?

It's a natural process of pre-self -> self-> self-transcendence. 

Kind of only I wouldn't call it a transcendence. It's more like recognizing the misidentification.

Which brings with it a compassion for others.

? It can happen. Anything can happen.

Awareness is the One. It's not like no one is home. It's One that is home.

Awareness or the One was also recognized to ultimately be unreal. So there is no one and there is no home.

It's more than socially conditioned. It's the survival mechanisms that is at the root of the sense of self.

The body will naturally try to survive prior to any thoughts about it. The "sense of self" is the illusory character that takes ownership over these apparent happenings.

No one or no thing arrives at an answer.

The questioner, the question and the perceiver is emptiness or freedom for No One. ❤

[WelcometoReality]

Just now, Inliytened1 said:

Can you elaborate?

Even though pure being has been realized you still find yourself with a body that is conditioned and you can still be caught by the conditioning. Acting and expressing it.

[Nahm]

42 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

I thought about this, but I don't like the model as much, because it does not account for how localized selves (ports of consciousness through which experience takes place) are directly affected by alterations to the physical elements.

If you class it like God's mind the dreamer, material universe the dreamed, self mind localized in the dream, that model accounts for everything.

You have to put the appearance of duality somewhere anyway since that exists in any location where experience of any sort happens. So I prefer this model.

The model does not account for the I which doesn’t like the model. 

[Inliytened1]

43 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

Even though pure being has been realized you still find yourself with a body that is conditioned and you can still be caught by the conditioning. Acting and expressing it.

Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water.  After enlightenment chop wood, carry water.  Only this time there is no more suffering because you realize that suffering is part of the ego mind and to me a direct result of selfishness.  You can go meta on the ego mind because you have "actually" transcended it.  It takes integration work post enlightenment, don't get me wrong...

As for the body it resides within Mind, ultimately.

[WelcometoReality]

37 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Kind of only I wouldn't call it a transcendence. It's more like recognizing the misidentification.

Misidentification sounds like there is something wrong with it. It's a natural evolvement happening.

 

37 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Awareness or the One was also recognized to ultimately be unreal. So there is no one and there is no home.

It's all one and it's aware or conscious however you want to put it.

37 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

The body will naturally try to survive prior to any thoughts about it. The "sense of self" is the illusory character that takes ownership over these apparent happenings.

The illusory character is just thought. Transcending that is just the tip of the iceberg. 

37 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

No one or no thing arrives at an answer.

The questioner, the question and the perceiver is emptiness or freedom for No One. ❤

Yes it's an unknowing. That emptiness is you but the only one holding onto freedom is the separate self.

[WelcometoReality]

15 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water.  After enlightenment chop wood, carry water.  Only this time there is no more suffering because you realize that suffering is part of the ego mind and to me a direct result of selfishness.  You can go meta on the ego mind because you have "actually" transcended it.   And the body resides within Mind, ultimately.

So you never catch yourself getting angry? ?

Even though thought has been transcended there is still beliefs which are tightly linked to feeling. Seeing through those can take a bit more "effort".

[Inliytened1]

13 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

Misidentification sounds like there is something wrong with it. It's a natural evolvement happening.

True...Consciousness is a shapeshifter.  Once it is realized that you are Consciousness and not the individual shapes, once is free to incarnate as any shape and embrace that shape..to fully experience what it is to be that shape, ultimately returning to source to play the game again.

[Inliytened1]

8 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

So you never catch yourself getting angry? ?

Even though thought has been transcended there is still beliefs which are tightly linked to feeling. Seeing through those can take a bit more "effort".

Yes but rarely now and if I ever do i catch myself pretty fastI  i went back and edited to mention there is Integration work post awakening...enlightenment is a magic pill but it doesn't work overnight.  It does in a sense but then the ego has to return and integrate Truth into its everyday life..but once Truth is seen it cannot he unseen - although the ego will try its damndest   it can take years of integration work- it depends on where one is on the path.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@Breakingthewall

The definitions are thoughts, while there is no thinker of thoughts. The lips can not kiss the lips, the nose can not smell the nose, the eyes can not see the eyes, the mind can not control the mind, just as thoughts can not define awareness.

 

Of course, no one tries to describe consciousness with thoughts. it is trying to identify the origin of the thoughts. imo arise from the need for control. the need for control is the i, and it is the creator of thoughts. Though are a manifestation of the need of control, trying to control every single second, without leaving a gap for emptiness, because for the need for control, emptiness is the supreme lack of control

[WelcometoReality]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yes but rarely now and if I ever do i catch myself pretty fastI  i went back and edited to mention there is Integration work post awakening...enlightenment is a magic pill but it doesn't work overnight.  It does in a sense but then the ego has to return and integrate Truth into its everyday life..but once Truth is seen it cannot he unseen - although the ego will try its damndest   it can take years of integration work- it depends on where one is on the path.

Yeah. That resonates with my experience aswell. There is first the realization and honeymoon period of no ego and then ego returns and your work becomes more of an untwining of egoic thought and feeling. It seems like the gap between identification and seeing gets smaller and smaller with time and as you do the work. 

[WelcometoReality]

38 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

True...Consciousness is a shapeshifter.  Once it is realized that you are Consciousness and not the individual shapes, once is free to incarnate as any shape and embrace that shape..to fully experience what it is to be that shape, ultimately returning to source to play the game again.

Yes free to take on any perspective within consciousness because one has let go of holding onto any particular part.

Edited June 24, 2021 by WelcometoReality