Epikur

Sweden one of the highest rates of gun violence in Europe

33 posts in this topic

14 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

@Epikur I would have never thought in a million years this was the case. Very strange

Yes apparently being high on spiral dynamics didn't help them

For many it was not so surprizing

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Sweden has ignored practical issues for so long, and just been preoccupied with keeping a moral facade outwards and now karma will hit Sweden hard.

Not only highest rates of gang violence we also have the highest rates of drug related deaths.

Unfortunatly this is only the beginning of the decline of Sweden. 

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4 minutes ago, ArchangelG said:

Sweden has ignored practical issues for so long, and just been preoccupied with keeping a moral facade outwards and now karma will hit Sweden hard.

Not only highest rates of gang violence we also have the highest rates of drug related deaths.

Unfortunatly this is only the beginning of the decline of Sweden. 

You're gonna need to back up some solid evidences to claim that an entire country will go downhill like that, as of now your post is just alarmist.

The reporters themselves don't even know the reasons of why there is such an increase.


Spirituality is not the renunciation of life

It is the art of living fully

 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Shin said:

You're gonna need to back up some solid evidences to claim that an entire country will go downhill like that, as of now your post is just alarmist.

The reporters themselves don't even know the reasons of why there is such an increase.

In the form of Vaush: It is because of socio-economics

 

Quote

A literature review by Brå in 2019, covering Nordic studies on crime and foreign background 2005-2019, finds similar results - people with foreign background are somewhat overrepresented, and the overrepresentation vary between countries of origin and type of crime. According to Brå factors that lead to segregation – for example low level of education and lack of employment or other occupation – also seem to contribute to a higher level of crime amongst people with foreign background. Factors as war traumas, mental illness and the level of crime, conflict and economic development in the country of origin might also be factors that contribute to explain some of the differences.

https://www.government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/

Edited by Epikur

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Sweden has had very liberal immigration policy from third world countries for decades (no filtering based on education etc., poor back up checks, poor to no return policies) and that has resulted that there are city districts where majority of the population is immigrants or their children. These immigrants generally have came from stage red and blue countries (e.g. middle east) and have lower education and poor employment rate and in time some of them have formed gangs that even rule some of those districts so that they have become no-go areas even for police forces. For long, Swedish Democrats were/have been the only party recognizing the problem and other parties have refused to co-work with that party. Here in Finland, there has been a lot of discussion about taking measures to avoid the path that Sweden has taken.

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Posted (edited)

Sweden reminds me a bit of Osho's ashram, when they brought in tons of homeless people and thought they could just turn them into spiritual hippies in a few months. 

Definitely seems to be some naive green going on there, they have brought in immigrants from tough life situations at a very large scale, without adequate integration strategies and ways to avoid segregation of those populations. The totally open borders strategy is in principle very admirable, but in practice unsustainable for a state (unless very similiar cultures), which even Sweden has had to admit as it put in place stricter immigration policies after 2015. 

That being said, I don't know anywhere near enough about the reasons behind increased gun violence in Sweden to say for sure that the immigration policy is a main culprit, but it does seem to be quite strongly linked to the issue. Norway and Finland have similiar societies and cultures, yet there doesn't seem to be such a problem since they both have taken proportionally much less immigrants in, and with much better integration and segregation avoidance strategies. 

 

Note:

The talk about Sweden having "no-go zones, as in areas where the police and ambulances cannot go because they're so dangerous is a myth/propaganda spread by right wing groups to promote the narrative of Sweden going to shit "because of the immigrants"

https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/6630452

Edited by TheAlchemist

Every perspective has at least a piece of the truth in it.

No one is capable of being 100% wrong.

 

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Sweden will not go downhill. Yes there is a gun violence and problems with some immigrants, but it is not the end of the world. So Sweden will have to deal with it, just like every other country has to, maybe even more efficient then the others.

There is no need for the right wing propaganda in that.

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40 minutes ago, Bojan V said:

Sweden will not go downhill.

I agree with this.

It's a bump on the road, exacerbated by the political climate and the stage of a relative small an unhealthy portion of progressive population, a part that is taking more space and getting more effect than it should.

The exacerbating is suoported by an inability to deal with problems and rather denying and neglecting problems until they cannot be swept under the rug anymore, being all too concerned about maintaining facade and image than admitting and addressing existing problems. Meanwhile, problems possible to handle grows into something less manageable, which has become the reality of where we are today. 

These are Swedish characteristics though, and not unique to politicians, afraid of conflict, pretending problems go away if we wait, being non-confrontational, quiet and calm on the surface, accepting what is, regardless is that being healthy or not, and so on. 

All of these challenges are training and strengthening the system to adapt and overcome, through pains. And this is what is happening, slowly, and to a growing degree, until political powers are replaced and upgraded with a more progressive and functional politicians, in all parties. It will take time still, and stopping the bleeding is needed, sooner than later. The main obstacle at the moment in the sitting governments inability to get to the root of problems. They either need to evolve themselves, or be replaces so that they can retreat regroup and come back with abilities to better address the complexities of today.

It's just how things are, the manifestations are different for different stages and circumstances, but there will be edges in development where pressure increases, before moving forward.

This is not regression, it is part of development, and not always pretty. 

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Quote

Fear of violence[edit]

According to a survey by the Swedish Agency for Youth and Civil Society (MUCF), performed in 2018, and released in April 2019, 70% of men and 36% of women in the ages 16–29 years old were afraid of being subjected to violence when they are outside. In 2013 the percentages were 26% for men and 32% for women.[113][114][115]

According to the EU-SILC survey, Sweden is one of the countries in Europe where the highest share of the population experience problems with crime, violence or vandalism in the area they live.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden#Crime_trends

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Does it matter which tool people use for killing each other? Sweden has similar homicide states as many other western and northern European countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate . @Epikur . The stats are old, but I think they're relevant
While people in other European countries might use knives to kill people, is the preferred murder weapon for criminals here in Sweden illegal firearms. 

Yes, immigration is a factor in the violence perpetrated on the streets recently. But the overall problem is multifacited, I think. 

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Posted (edited)

We should be careful in our interpretations and conclusions.

Let's first put the gun violence in Sweden in perspective:

hallooo.jpg

This is data from 2012 but I've see similar data for 2015 and beyond. Sweden doesn't seem to be doing that bad relative to the rest of the world. Especially the US.

And then, is Stage Green goverment to blame for this? Sweden had a liberal-conservative PM from 2006-2014

 

 

 

 

Edited by ItsNick

"When you reach the top of the mountain, keep climbing."

Zen Proverb

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Posted (edited)

If the "borgerliga blocket" (Moderaterna, Kristdemokraterna, Liberalerna)+Sverigedemokraterna would win the next election, then they would make the laws tougher, they would let the police do more surveillance, they would cut down on immigration, and they advocate a membership in NATO, although Sverigedemokraterna don't want membership in NATO.

I really really hope that they will win. 1 year left to next election.

Btw, I'm not a supporter of Sverigedemokraterna, but unfortunately they have teamed up with the "borgerliga blocket". Sverigedemokraterna (SD) are racists, populists, and idiots.

Edited by Blackhawk

"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."   — Robert A. Heinlein

"I'm allergic to stupidity."   — Chris Colfer

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8 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

If the "borgerliga blocket" (Moderaterna, Kristdemokraterna, Liberalerna)+Sverigedemokraterna would win the next election, then they would make the laws tougher, they would let the police do more surveillance, they would cut down on immigration, and they advocate a membership in NATO, although Sverigedemokraterna don't want membership in NATO.

I really really hope that they will win. 1 year left to next election.

Btw, I'm not a supporter of Sverigedemokraterna, but unfortunately they have teamed up with the "borgerliga blocket". Sverigedemokraterna (SD) are racists, populists, and idiots.

We might have election earlier than that..

There's some political drama going on as we speak. I can't really explain the stuff in english..


"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."   — Robert A. Heinlein

"I'm allergic to stupidity."   — Chris Colfer

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2 hours ago, ArcticGong said:

Does it matter which tool people use for killing each other? Sweden has similar homicide states as many other western and northern European countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate . @Epikur . The stats are old, but I think they're relevant
While people in other European countries might use knives to kill people, is the preferred murder weapon for criminals here in Sweden illegal firearms. 

Yes, immigration is a factor in the violence perpetrated on the streets recently. But the overall problem is multifacited, I think. 

I compared Sweden to other european countries. Again:
 

Quote

According to the EU-SILC survey, Sweden is one of the countries in Europe where the highest share of the population experience problems with crime, violence or vandalism in the area they live.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden#Crime_trends

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It seems like an important reason for this is economic inequality. Most of the violence we've seen in Sweden in recent times has come from poorer neighborhoods, which do tend to have more immigrants in them. However, based my research so far, I can't tell if these neighborhoods are poor because of immigration, or if it's because of other policies. A lot of people here seem to be assuming it's just the former, but I think we should be careful with jumping to such conclusions.

Is the problem here really immigration, or is it poor integration of immigrants and economic policies that have increased inequality in Sweden?

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2 hours ago, Peter-Andre said:

Is the problem here really immigration, or is it poor integration of immigrants and economic policies that have increased inequality in Sweden?

Why can’t it be both? Which variable is the more significant ? 

The government acknowledged their difficulties with integration after 2015 immigration wave when 150k people came.

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